bambi_boy
Well-known member
What is the protocal for calves?
Vac schedule & worming
- Thread starter bambi_boy
- Start date
For your holstein calf... I'd wait until about 2-3 months of age before vaccinating. Simply put, the immune system will not respond to the vaccine before that age due to interference from the antibodies he got in the colostrum. Save your money and wait until it'll actually do him some good.
When you do vaccinate... check with your vet to see what's recommended for your area, but the standard vaccinations for most areas are: a clostridium vaccine (usually called an 8-way or 7-way), a viral vaccine (usually called 4 or 5-way) for BVD, IBR, BRSV, etc, and some folks also vaccinate for pinkeye, strains of bacterially caused pneumonia like pasturella, tetanus and/or redwater (if it's not included in the clostridium vacc)... the list goes on and on. Best advice is to check with your vet. ;-)
As far as worming... I usually do mine at the same time as when I'm vaccinating since I already have them caught. Remember to repeat your vaccinations and wormer in 3-8 weeks depending on what the label recommends.
When you do vaccinate... check with your vet to see what's recommended for your area, but the standard vaccinations for most areas are: a clostridium vaccine (usually called an 8-way or 7-way), a viral vaccine (usually called 4 or 5-way) for BVD, IBR, BRSV, etc, and some folks also vaccinate for pinkeye, strains of bacterially caused pneumonia like pasturella, tetanus and/or redwater (if it's not included in the clostridium vacc)... the list goes on and on. Best advice is to check with your vet. ;-)
As far as worming... I usually do mine at the same time as when I'm vaccinating since I already have them caught. Remember to repeat your vaccinations and wormer in 3-8 weeks depending on what the label recommends.
Cloverbell
Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 5
I'm here to learn so bear with me please.
New vet at my vet's practice, just out of vet school so I'm thinking she's got the latest "scoop". She recommended vaccinating at 2-3 months then 2 weeks before weaning AND 2 weeks after - total 3 times. We normally don't wean until 5-6 months (sometimes sooner). We're doing a Blackleg combo and Triangle 9. Her reasoning was the importance of that first vaccine regardless of weather weaned yet and then the last 2 close together for best effect. What do you think?
Cloverbell
Vanleer, Tennessee
New vet at my vet's practice, just out of vet school so I'm thinking she's got the latest "scoop". She recommended vaccinating at 2-3 months then 2 weeks before weaning AND 2 weeks after - total 3 times. We normally don't wean until 5-6 months (sometimes sooner). We're doing a Blackleg combo and Triangle 9. Her reasoning was the importance of that first vaccine regardless of weather weaned yet and then the last 2 close together for best effect. What do you think?
Cloverbell
Vanleer, Tennessee
Cloverbell-- If a vaccine isn't boostered within the time frame listed on the label (usually 4-6 weeks) you've wasted your time and money. The first vaccine triggers an immune response to those bacteria or viruses, and the second vaccine strengthens and quickens the response. Additional vaccines after that can be very beneficial -- esp if one of the other times you vaccinated was at the same time as another stress (branding, dehorning, etc) and the calf's immune system may not have responded as well as it should have. You'd be better off to vaccinate at 3 months, then booster at 4 months, and if you want to vaccinate again prior to weaning then go for it. I've triple vaccinated my calves before and ideally would do it for all my calves if it were practical.
Double R Ranch
Well-known member
Here is what is given to us by our vet when we asked what we should do in our area:
Cows Prior to Breeding:
Bovishield 4+5L
Vibrio
During the year:
8 Way clostridia every 6 months
Lepto 5 every 6 months
Calves:
8 Weeks:
Cattlemaster 4+5L
8 Way Clostridial
Haemophilus Somnus/ Pasteurella
12 Weeks:
Bovishield 4+5L
8 Way Clostridial
Haemophilus Somnus/ Pasteurella
All Vac. if never administered to any group of livestock must be given in two doses two weeks apart and at least two weeks before protection is needed.
Deworming:
Individual Herd Problems
Dry Land- 2 times per year, spring and fall. Fall being Ivomec
Irrigated Pasture- 3-4 times a year rotating dewormers with fall being Ivomec
Note: Ivomec should not be administered Nov. 15 to April 15.
We follow this routine to the T and knock on would haven't had any problems.
Keep in mind this is for our area. Other prob. like calf scours pneumonia etc may need to be added to your prog. That is why it is important to talk to your locol vet to see what is needed in your area and with your herd.
Just what we were given,
Double R
Cows Prior to Breeding:
Bovishield 4+5L
Vibrio
During the year:
8 Way clostridia every 6 months
Lepto 5 every 6 months
Calves:
8 Weeks:
Cattlemaster 4+5L
8 Way Clostridial
Haemophilus Somnus/ Pasteurella
12 Weeks:
Bovishield 4+5L
8 Way Clostridial
Haemophilus Somnus/ Pasteurella
All Vac. if never administered to any group of livestock must be given in two doses two weeks apart and at least two weeks before protection is needed.
Deworming:
Individual Herd Problems
Dry Land- 2 times per year, spring and fall. Fall being Ivomec
Irrigated Pasture- 3-4 times a year rotating dewormers with fall being Ivomec
Note: Ivomec should not be administered Nov. 15 to April 15.
We follow this routine to the T and knock on would haven't had any problems.
Keep in mind this is for our area. Other prob. like calf scours pneumonia etc may need to be added to your prog. That is why it is important to talk to your locol vet to see what is needed in your area and with your herd.
Just what we were given,
Double R
Double R - I agree with your program - except - I would vacc calves at 12 weeks & 16 weeks. At 8 weeks, they are too young to get much of anything out of the vaccines. As MM said, until they are 3 months of age, they have too much antibodies in their system from their colostrum, to get much if any benefit from any kind of vaccine. Read your label and I bet it says to vaccinate AFTER 3 months of age. Do you revaccinate calves before, at or after weaning?
I give calves their two sets of shots (MLV) at 3 & 4 months of age & again after weaning.
You may not be having any problems because you have a low challenge to their immune systems. With our showing, our cattle gets lots of "challenge".
I give calves their two sets of shots (MLV) at 3 & 4 months of age & again after weaning.
You may not be having any problems because you have a low challenge to their immune systems. With our showing, our cattle gets lots of "challenge".
Double R Ranch
Well-known member
Jeanne - Simme Valley":1be59sbg said:
I wondered that myself but the vet swears this is the way I need to do it. Might get in contact with the manuf. and ask them what they think. My vet is old and set in his ways. We do vac. at weaning and and do the approp. boosters. It definitly helps with the selling price being weaned atleast 45 days and vac. twice @ weaning and after..
I bet you get a huge challenge on your show animals! I have been to shows and seen many a sick animal. That is one reason why we personally don't buy show/auction animals anymore. To likely to bring something in. Learned that the hard way with our swine. Sometimes it is hard though. Do you quaranteen your show animal once they are back from a show? Just curious, not trying to be nosey.
Double R
Once an animal is designated to our show string, they are always kept seperate, because they are handled so differently (daily brushing & walking on halter, etc). But, to say we isolate show cattle, is a stretch of the imagination. Just being on the same farm as the others, they are in constant contact - if nothing else - thru us. We don't change boots or clothes, etc. And many illnessness are airborn.
I have used Cattlemaster before but don't know what it says on label. But, most (if not ALL) vaccines I have read, say to wait til after they are 3 months of age.
Of course, If I were you, I wouldn't be anxious to change something that is working. :P
I have used Cattlemaster before but don't know what it says on label. But, most (if not ALL) vaccines I have read, say to wait til after they are 3 months of age.
Of course, If I were you, I wouldn't be anxious to change something that is working. :P
Double R Ranch
Well-known member
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2ibzco4a said:
Good point about the "isolation" that is why I was asking.
We have questioned the ages for the vac. but our vet says it is the way to do it. I have been interested in if it is right though. There are a lot of things that our vet is set on that we have found to be very outdated.
It seems to work ok however we aren't exposed to much these days.
Double R
larryshoat
Well-known member
I have one question for all that recommend waiting to vaccinate . As many as one third of calves that have had good colostrum have inadequate BSTP levels . What do you recommend for those ?
Larry
Larry
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Larry,
BSTP? huh
If I understand correctly it's the antibody level? If that is the case then, that can be traced back to the birth stress, enviroment stress at birth, bonding stress at birth. It has been proven, at least by Pfizer, from tests they did that these stresses lower the ability to absorb the antibodies from the passive transfer from the dam.
Pfizer did some tests, calves were given the same amount of the same quality colostrum. They were followed for the next 6 months or so. Blood tests were drawn, as well as watching how they reacted to the stress of the enviroment and virus load.
It was concluded that a stressed calf could not absorb the same levels of what was needed, and were less protected.
Some ideas of stresses were:
Weather..ie dumped in a snow bank, rains that were cold, wet conditions
Diffcult birth was a factor, slow in recovery from the birth, stressed from the experience
Troubles bonding with the mother
and several others that i can not remember
BSTP? huh
If I understand correctly it's the antibody level? If that is the case then, that can be traced back to the birth stress, enviroment stress at birth, bonding stress at birth. It has been proven, at least by Pfizer, from tests they did that these stresses lower the ability to absorb the antibodies from the passive transfer from the dam.
Pfizer did some tests, calves were given the same amount of the same quality colostrum. They were followed for the next 6 months or so. Blood tests were drawn, as well as watching how they reacted to the stress of the enviroment and virus load.
It was concluded that a stressed calf could not absorb the same levels of what was needed, and were less protected.
Some ideas of stresses were:
Weather..ie dumped in a snow bank, rains that were cold, wet conditions
Diffcult birth was a factor, slow in recovery from the birth, stressed from the experience
Troubles bonding with the mother
and several others that i can not remember
Larry, I have no idea what a BSTP level is. That said, around here, one can never, ever assume that these baby holstein bull calves had even a drop of colostrum. Now, if BSTP references that, I'm with ya'...and even if it doesn't, I'm with ya'. I've lost toooooo many calves, and tooooooo much money hoping that the calves I bought had colostrum right off the get go. Been burned enough...
I vaccinate any and everything that comes on this property before it gets off the trailer, I don't care how old, young, big, or little.
Yeah, it's possible to keep a calf alive...even raise a good calf that hasn't had colostrum...but let me assure ya', ya' fly by the seat of your pants, expect the worse, and hope for the best. If a little wiff up the nose helps that along, hey, do it! If it doesn't, that little wiff up the nose ain't that blasted expensive.
Alice
I vaccinate any and everything that comes on this property before it gets off the trailer, I don't care how old, young, big, or little.
Yeah, it's possible to keep a calf alive...even raise a good calf that hasn't had colostrum...but let me assure ya', ya' fly by the seat of your pants, expect the worse, and hope for the best. If a little wiff up the nose helps that along, hey, do it! If it doesn't, that little wiff up the nose ain't that blasted expensive.
Alice
larryshoat
Well-known member
Blood Serum Total Proteins, basically a measure of the success of passive transfer of immunity .
Larry
Larry
larryshoat
Well-known member
Alice":2zpbd7jr said:
Yes, I think you have a good grasp of what I'm getting at .Especially bull calves, I've unloaded bull calves before that I doubt had ever been feed let alone colostrum . I think we can safely assume that these calves are not adequately protected by maternal antibodies . If we expect to be successful raising these kinds of calves we can't wait for 2 or 3 months to see how it all turns out .
Larry
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
milkmaid":2xiji4hk said:
I agree additional vaccinations can be beneficial, but some (pink eye, 7 way ect.) vaccines are listed as only requiring one shot. Seems like a waste to put them through the chute again unless you have an unusual challenge.
Larrry & Alice - it is easily understood that when you are talking about "bobby calves" (as they are referred to around here), you have to "assume" they have NO ANTIBODIES to anything.
But, "most" of us are talking about cow/calf operations. Under "normal" situations, a calf has gotten it's colostrum.
Pharmaceuticals recommend vaccination AFTER 3 months - they wouldn't do that if they didn't have a lot of research to backup that recommendation. After all, they are in it to SELL product. If vaccinating sooner would be helpful, they would put it somewhere on their label - although, I am not saying that it may or may not help when calf does not get any/or all of its immunities from dam.
Just saying it's not on the label.
But, "most" of us are talking about cow/calf operations. Under "normal" situations, a calf has gotten it's colostrum.
Pharmaceuticals recommend vaccination AFTER 3 months - they wouldn't do that if they didn't have a lot of research to backup that recommendation. After all, they are in it to SELL product. If vaccinating sooner would be helpful, they would put it somewhere on their label - although, I am not saying that it may or may not help when calf does not get any/or all of its immunities from dam.
Just saying it's not on the label.
