Using Unproven Hereford Bull (New Link)

[LFF]

I'm going to stick my neck out for the chopping block. What are your thoughts on using a unproven bull with good Edp's and bloodlines similar to this one?

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5&9=525C5B



If you think the bull had possiblities , how would you convince others to use him if he was AI approved and collected? He would have to be used a lot to ever get proven. A small time operation would encounter several difficulities getting anyone to try his bulls.

Thanks,
LFF

 

[LFF]

I made corrections to the orginal post and the link now should work.

 

[cypressfarms]

LFF,

Still doesn't work for me. Says I'm not signed in.

 

[Alan]

LFF,

Give it another try, I would like to see the bull your talking about. I don't think you got all the address highlighted when you did your copy and paste.

Alan

 

[Frankie]

I'm going to stick my neck out for the chopping block. What are your thoughts on using a unproven bull with good Edp's and bloodlines similar to this one?

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5&9=525C5B



If you think the bull had possiblities , how would you convince others to use him if he was AI approved and collected? He would have to be used a lot to ever get proven. A small time operation would encounter several difficulities getting anyone to try his bulls.

Thanks,
LFF

I still can't get the info to come up. Could you post a photo and his pedigree? I'd like to see him, too.

It's not impossible to get a bull used. N Bar Emulation EXT wasn't picked up by ABS until he was an older bull, 6 or 7, I think.

Do you have access to a bull test? We watched sons of the Angus bull Plowman perform well at our bull test for a couple of years before we went ahead and used him. He was picked up by ABS, too, but the owner proved him at the bull test.

 

[MikeC]

He was picked up by ABS, too, but the owner proved him at the bull test.

How did he "Proved him" at the bull test?

 

[1848]

Don't log in when you link the file. Just pull him up under the normal AHA search without logging in and the link will work.

 

[Frankie]

He was picked up by ABS, too, but the owner proved him at the bull test.

How did he "Proved him" at the bull test?

By siring several of the top indexing bulls at the test station.

 

[MikeC]

He was picked up by ABS, too, but the owner proved him at the bull test.

How did he "Proved him" at the bull test?

By siring several of the top indexing bulls at the test station.

Were all of the bull calves that were born to the owner that year entered in that bull test or was there a random sample selected by an uninterested third party? Did he send any other sire groups?

If not, could be that the owner had half sibs to those "Top Indexing" bulls at home that wouldn't have done so well on the test. Could possibly have been the dams that contributed the necessary genetic ingredients to these "Top Indexing" calves.

Bull tests are only a marketing scheme because of the way the calves are chosen for the tests.

Only the best are picked. That's the biggest advantage to the buyers.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

If you give me the bulls name I will provide the link

 

[Frankie]

Were all of the bull calves that were born to the owner that year entered in that bull test or was there a random sample selected by an uninterested third party? Did he send any other sire groups?

Don't know.

If not, could be that the owner had half sibs to those "Top Indexing" bulls at home that wouldn't have done so well on the test. Could possibly have been the dams that contributed the necessary genetic ingredients to these "Top Indexing" calves.

I would doubt that any bull produces only "winners." Of course, the cows had something to do with it.

Bull tests are only a marketing scheme because of the way the calves are chosen for the tests.

Maybe in AL, but not necessarily in OK.

Only the best are picked. That's the biggest advantage to the buyers.

I don't think that's true. If you look at a test index, not every bull is a "good" one and some just can't handle the hot feed and stress. Maybe he sent only his best Plowman sons to test, but we also sent some that did well and so did other breeders. There's one of our Plowman sons working just across the road south of us. He's five or six years old now and still doing the job.

 

[MikeC]

Just a little something for you to think about. No big deal.

Bull tests were originally designed to aid the purebred producer in choosing a herdsire from his crop of calves that year, before AI became popular.

Back then they used to send the whole contemporary group, instead of just 3 or 4. It was a more complete diagnosis of the complete herd when they did it this way.

 

[Frankie]

OK, but today bull feeding stations come in several varieties: research stations, development stations, feed efficiency stations... Whatever they're called, most of them seem to be aimed at producing bulls for commercial cattlemen. There just aren't that many purebred breeders buying bulls at test stations anymore since AI has become widely available. At least that seems to be true of in the Angus breed.

 

[LFF]

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5&9=5D5C5A

It should work now. I had to access his numbers as a guest on the Hereford site to get the link working properly.

I will get pictures as soon as I locate a digital camera.

 

[Alan]

You are going off of a young bulls EPD, I like him a lot. He's not proven yet and EPD's can and may change a bunch. Is semen available on him yet? Here's a link to a young bull, unproven, that I really like, but a close EPD graph.

Alan

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 4&9=5C505C

 

[LFF]

Alan, he has some of the same lines as he bull you listed.

I own the bull calf that I asked about and am exploring my options. He is a Feb. 2006 calf and I may have him AI approved , depending on serveral factors.

Having him collected mainly depends on breaking even or better with cost.

He out preformed my other calves and I will be better able to decide his future after ultrasounding and yearly weights are obtained. His sire still has better EPD's than him , so alot depends on his preformance. He should make a good clean-up bull this spring. I AI the majority of my herd and presently have a nice phenotype bull that I'm having a hard time deciding to part with.

If you are interested in using him send me a e-mail and I'll try to make it happen. He rates in the top 200 , 2006 bull calf profit indexes.

LFF

 

[Alan]

Man, he looks on paper to be a great bull, hang on to him to use in your herd. I'm sure he has no genetic flaws, or you wouldn't be talking about him. Let me know how he developes, both stucturally, and EPD wise, sounds like a nice bull.

Alan