Twins and buzzards....I hate both

[farmwriter]

We had a pair born this morning. Cow took the the runt and rejected the larger one. Local co-op guy met my mama and unlocked the store so we could get colostrum. And it is POURING rain here today. Happy friggin New Year, but I guess it could be worse: could be two dead calves.
Cypress, if you were closer, I'd say you ought to join me for a toddy and we could sit a spell and feel sorry for each other.

 

[jnm303]

I seem to have 2-3 sets a year and always seemed to lose at least one. Lat year, I put mother and calves in a pen; bottle fed the one being rejected or getting less for a few days until they were no longer interested in the bottle and then turned them out. The mothers accepted them both and all was fine. Had one ~1200 pound cow wean 1100 pounds of calf. The other set were both small at weaning but are growing good.

 

[vclavin]

I LOVE twins. Never had any trouble with them. Heifers and cows alike have no trouble raising them. We do however, make sure at least 1 cows calves first and the heifers "learn" from the experience. They "watch" the older cow. I have also been told that the mothering ability comes from the sire of the heifer/cow and not the dam. Anyway, not had an abandoned calf since using teachers.
Valerie

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I LOVE twins. Never had any trouble with them. Heifers and cows alike have no trouble raising them. We do however, make sure at least 1 cows calves first and the heifers "learn" from the experience. They "watch" the older cow. I have also been told that the mothering ability comes from the sire of the heifer/cow and not the dam. Anyway, not had an abandoned calf since using teachers.
Valerie

Val, it's not a matter of knowing what to do - or the mothering ability. I, actually, have never had one reject the 2nd calf. When you get a set tangled up trying to come out together at 2 AM, backwards & upside down, or have a cow retain her placenta from a set of DOA twins 3 weeks early, or have a heifer calve out way too thin compared to her contemporaries because she was carrying a set of twins, or infection sets in in the cervex, yatayatayata - way too many problems associated with twins to offset the "good" set. As I stated, I have made really good profit from twin heifers raised by their own dam - but NOT WORTH IT over the long haul. I HATE TWINS! Give me a single every time & I'll be happy. We're down to 13 days til first due date, and I'm pleased I haven't had a cow abort a set of twins ---- yet.
Simmentals do tend to have more twins.

 

[cypressfarms]

Now I'm really getting mad. I have two simmi cross cows that are full sisters, both are excellent momas; as a matter of fact one raised twins a few years back (The kids named the twins peanut and butter, so the moma got named Jelly; we then had to call the moma's sister Jam). They are such good momas that I like to keep the heifers from them. So the first one's already calved, nice heifer but small. The second sister - "Jam" calved Friday night with a fine looking heifer. She was big for me at about 80 pounds and was all black but a blaze on her face. I even got to tag her. This morning when I was corraling all the cows, I watched as the day old heifer walked right through my fence and mixed in with the neighbours cows. She's only a day and a half old at most. Looked most of the day for her, but to no avail. Moma has been pacing up and down the length of my property calling for her. I've had this happen before and almost every time the calf comes back over night, but with my luck this year - I may be in trouble.

Close or not farmwriter, when I go out at daylight tomorrow and she's not there, I will need that drink then!

 

[Angus Cowman]

I LOVE twins. Never had any trouble with them. Heifers and cows alike have no trouble raising them. We do however, make sure at least 1 cows calves first and the heifers "learn" from the experience. They "watch" the older cow. I have also been told that the mothering ability comes from the sire of the heifer/cow and not the dam. Anyway, not had an abandoned calf since using teachers.
Valerie

Val, it's not a matter of knowing what to do - or the mothering ability. I, actually, have never had one reject the 2nd calf. When you get a set tangled up trying to come out together at 2 AM, backwards & upside down, or have a cow retain her placenta from a set of DOA twins 3 weeks early, or have a heifer calve out way too thin compared to her contemporaries because she was carrying a set of twins, or infection sets in in the cervex, yatayatayata - way too many problems associated with twins to offset the "good" set. As I stated, I have made really good profit from twin heifers raised by their own dam - but NOT WORTH IT over the long haul. I HATE TWINS! Give me a single every time & I'll be happy. We're down to 13 days til first due date, and I'm pleased I haven't had a cow abort a set of twins ---- yet.
Simmentals do tend to have more twins.

I had 5 sets this yr Jeanne and to me that is 5 sets too many lost one set DOA they were small and deformed looking when I picked them up their bones snapped

next set one was alive and second was dead
3rd, 4th and 5th set all were alive at birth but the 5th set 2nd calf was very small maybe 20-25lbs first calf was 60-70lbs 2nd calf died just a few minutes after calving was really stressed from the birth and actually looked alot younger than the 1st calf he resembled a calf that was born a month early if that could happen

 

[farmwriter]

Close or not farmwriter, when I go out at daylight tomorrow and she's not there, I will need that drink then!

Here's hoping you don't even have to look for her.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

5 sets - yikes!! I wouldn't wish that on anyone. We generally get 2 or 3 a year. I've heard that great nutrition prior to breeding adds to the possibility of twins.
Twins just take more time at a time when you are already too busy. Even if everything is perfect.

 

[farmwriter]

Twins just take more time at a time when you are already too busy. Even if everything is perfect.

Amen to that!!!

 

[cypressfarms]

Well, good luck this morning. I went out just before daylight. Across the fence was the calf laying on some hay next to other cows. I ran up and grabbed it before it knew what was going on - she's only 2 days old. Carried her back to my fence line where moma was waiting. Slid her under the fence and she immediately went to sucking.

So no need for that drink farmwriter, at least not yet, thank god.

 

[farmwriter]

Well, we had our second set of twins born this morning. Again the mama chose the smaller calf and rejected the stronger one. The rejected heifer born Saturday has started sucking the bottle, just in time for us to tube a new one. This one is a good sized bull calf and very fiesty, so I suspect he'll get to sucking the bottle pretty quickly. A plea for no more multiple births is added to my prayers.

 

[vclavin]

I LOVE twins. Never had any trouble with them. Heifers and cows alike have no trouble raising them. We do however, make sure at least 1 cows calves first and the heifers "learn" from the experience. They "watch" the older cow. I have also been told that the mothering ability comes from the sire of the heifer/cow and not the dam. Anyway, not had an abandoned calf since using teachers.
Valerie

Val, it's not a matter of knowing what to do - or the mothering ability. I, actually, have never had one reject the 2nd calf. When you get a set tangled up trying to come out together at 2 AM, backwards & upside down, or have a cow retain her placenta from a set of DOA twins 3 weeks early, or have a heifer calve out way too thin compared to her contemporaries because she was carrying a set of twins, or infection sets in in the cervex, yatayatayata - way too many problems associated with twins to offset the "good" set. As I stated, I have made really good profit from twin heifers raised by their own dam - but NOT WORTH IT over the long haul. I HATE TWINS! Give me a single every time & I'll be happy. We're down to 13 days til first due date, and I'm pleased I haven't had a cow abort a set of twins ---- yet.
Simmentals do tend to have more twins.

I'm sure sorry you have had so much trouble with twins. Fortunately, we've not had that kind of trouble. Our twins are usually evenly matched in weight boys - 75lbs each or bull-80 and heifer 75 , so far no twin heifers.
Good luck on the rest. Hope they are singles for you.
Valerie

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Valerie - I tried to go to your web site - but it says it is no longer available. Do you have a new address?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Are you sure it is the birds getting them calves??

I don't really know the difference between Mexican buzzards, but they looked like our normal type: black and some white on the tips of their wings.

I'm almost positive it was vultures. The one calf that was mostly whole had it's eyes poked out. Only vultures do that. The vultures were also tearing down the first calf to bone when I arrived. They hadn't gotten to the 2nd calf because moma (and others) was defending it. I'm still guessing that they calves were born dead, but you never know. I've had small twins and both survive before, but I was there when they were born.

I am not saying that the vultures attacked at night. By the time I got out to the pasture it was at least 10:00 a.m. That gave the vultures plenty of time to carry out their work. They could have even done it the evening before.

Protected or not, there may be fewer around here in the future. That's all I'll say.

Today made it better though, Had another fine heifer calf born, so it kind of took the sting out of the twin ordeal.

Mexican Vultures have a white stripe across the wing and attack in packs. Some will distract the cow while others slip in and kill a calf. The Mexican Vulture in flight can not soar like the old turkey buzzard soars for a short distance then flaps three or four time and soars glides again for a short distance. Everything around here has a 22 mag on it just for them.

 

[redcowsrule33]

I LOVE twins. Never had any trouble with them. Heifers and cows alike have no trouble raising them. We do however, make sure at least 1 cows calves first and the heifers "learn" from the experience. They "watch" the older cow. I have also been told that the mothering ability comes from the sire of the heifer/cow and not the dam. Anyway, not had an abandoned calf since using teachers.
Valerie

Val, it's not a matter of knowing what to do - or the mothering ability. I, actually, have never had one reject the 2nd calf. When you get a set tangled up trying to come out together at 2 AM, backwards & upside down, or have a cow retain her placenta from a set of DOA twins 3 weeks early, or have a heifer calve out way too thin compared to her contemporaries because she was carrying a set of twins, or infection sets in in the cervex, yatayatayata - way too many problems associated with twins to offset the "good" set. As I stated, I have made really good profit from twin heifers raised by their own dam - but NOT WORTH IT over the long haul. I HATE TWINS! Give me a single every time & I'll be happy. We're down to 13 days til first due date, and I'm pleased I haven't had a cow abort a set of twins ---- yet.
Simmentals do tend to have more twins.

I'm with Jeanne on this one. When they work out it's great but you have a better chance at a positive outcome with a single birth. I hope your luck with twins holds out Valerie, but as for me if we never had another set I wouldn't be disappointed. Ecstatic, actually. But my best and most fertile bloodlines also have twins running through them so I guess I'm stuck. Plus my choice of breeds (Red Angus and Simmental) isn't helping me either on this front.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

This morning went out and checked the herd. Couldn't last night, got home too late with the kid's activities. When I went out I immediately knew something was wrong. Buzzards circling. Always a very bad sign. One of my best Brangus cows, she's 7, had apparently had twins overnight. My guess is that they were both born dead, the one calf with most of it's body remaining was only 30 pounds or so. The buzzards had worked on the first calf so much, that it was only a line of bones from the skull to the rear hip bone. I've never liked twins, and I hate buzzards more. Moma decided to protect one of the twins body, so it was fairly intact.

Now I just did an evening check and I have a heifer very close. I'll probably go out at least 3 or 4 times tonight checking on her - just because I'm paranoid about the buzzards. If the heifer has any problems at all, they'll go in for the kill. The buzzards have seem to be more aggressive lately. I think I may have to sight in my .22 rifle scope tomorrow on one...

Assuming they were born dead , which sounds like a safe assumption, sounds to me like the buzzards were doing there job.
We range calve and very few cows seem to be able to count to two, which makes twins a make work project. I much prefer single births.

 

[Caustic Burno]

This morning went out and checked the herd. Couldn't last night, got home too late with the kid's activities. When I went out I immediately knew something was wrong. Buzzards circling. Always a very bad sign. One of my best Brangus cows, she's 7, had apparently had twins overnight. My guess is that they were both born dead, the one calf with most of it's body remaining was only 30 pounds or so. The buzzards had worked on the first calf so much, that it was only a line of bones from the skull to the rear hip bone. I've never liked twins, and I hate buzzards more. Moma decided to protect one of the twins body, so it was fairly intact.

Now I just did an evening check and I have a heifer very close. I'll probably go out at least 3 or 4 times tonight checking on her - just because I'm paranoid about the buzzards. If the heifer has any problems at all, they'll go in for the kill. The buzzards have seem to be more aggressive lately. I think I may have to sight in my .22 rifle scope tomorrow on one...

Assuming they were born dead , which sounds like a safe assumption, sounds to me like the buzzards were doing there job.
We range calve and very few cows seem to be able to count to two, which makes twins a make work project. I much prefer single births.

Black Vultures kill they are a real problem here, they are relentless on the attack. These are not the gentle turkey buzzard that waits for something to die.

 

[backhoeboogie]

If a calf is born weak, Black Vultures (a.k.a. Mexican Buzzards) will attack and kill it. The first thing they do is gouge out the eyes to blind the calf. They'll flock in with great numbers and actually attack the cow that's trying to save her calf.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

If a calf is born weak, Black Vultures (a.k.a. Mexican Buzzards) will attack and kill it. The first thing they do is gouge out the eyes to blind the calf. They'll flock in with great numbers and actually attack the cow that's trying to save her calf.

Nasty, nasty, I am glad that is something we don't have to deal with. Didn't know any vulture was that aggressive. I learned something new.

 

[hillsdown]

If a calf is born weak, Black Vultures (a.k.a. Mexican Buzzards) will attack and kill it. The first thing they do is gouge out the eyes to blind the calf. They'll flock in with great numbers and actually attack the cow that's trying to save her calf.

Magpies will do somewhat the same here, they are our vultures and are relentless..