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Truth or Judgement on Breeding
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<blockquote data-quote="Ebenezer" data-source="post: 1531473" data-attributes="member: 24565"><p>I'd have to see the records and hopefully pictures of daughters and dam. And, remember, I have those old and new scars from breeding mistakes so that I can pretty easily cull myself out of a mainstream catalog. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /> If EPDs are true, if EPDs do not inflate (I tend to believe that they have), ... I want to maintain a FS5, 1250 to 1450 (some few are also 1050 and up) cow that can wean a 535+/- pound calf on fescue and whatever grass, clover and weeds are there with minerals but also breed back for a 60 day season to calve around every 365 days or less. Pastures are largely legume driven without commercial fertilizer. Litter is applied as needed but no more than every 3 to 5 years. </p><p></p><p>If the old EPDs are correct or close, that puts me in a old EPD range of WW 30-35 YW 45-50, MM 12-14, YH 0 or a tad higher, good on CEM, above average on HP if much data is there and not much motion on MH or MW. We have discussed BW and CED some months ago - I do not want stacked -BM or high +CED. I prefer BW in the 0 to 3 range with calf shape being snake-like rather than basketball shaped. I want a real calf and one that is not hampered by genetic links between low BW and low growth, thin muscle, ...</p><p></p><p>And EPDs - they do not link well to our cattle. I remember old 205 - she had 10 to 12 calves, never assisted, sons and daughters never required assistance in later generations - they had her at the lowest CED of any cow in the herd at about -5. Other EPDs do not link well either. I also have the benefit of some unreported carcass data from sales of steers to a friend who did grassfed beef. I was pleased with those results.</p><p></p><p>So, take a run through the AAA sire search and you will find few if any bulls with that balance. I just helped a guy south of me buy a starter herd. We did quite a search. There were disappointments in the sale cattle along the way because words and pictures did not match the real world. What ended up was that I knew of a solid breeder from a state or two north of here with a fairly linebred herd. We knew that his conditions and environment trumped anything south of him and sorted through some offering from the middle performance cattle of his herd. They have done great. The proof of fit will come next year. So sometimes it is OK to sit on the porch with the little dogs and let the big dogs have the yard. You have to know your environmental limitations and management limitations.</p><p></p><p>We have discussed the semantics of the word "should". I use that word for myself because I have an obligation to buyers, customers, friends, neighbors to sell them breeder animals that will help and not hurt them. Maybe others see buyers as pawns or rubes. If the whole industry was congealed that all segments looked out for other segments and people beef would be far ahead in the whole and in the diets of people. </p><p></p><p>Plan your work and work your plan. I know my limits and my limitations. I can add some WW if things improve and they have. We added 25 pounds by putting in additional watering points and more of it. I can boost growth with winter annuals, higher fertility, adequate rain, ... but the thing I really need is a herd of cows that can survive and produce in the sure-to-be drought periods and hot summers while eating fescue, eating around fescue, not getting pampered. When it finally does rain, I still want the cows bred and ready to calve again in 365. I cannot do that with extreme growth, extreme size or extreme milk production. Neither can the average neighbor's cattle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ebenezer, post: 1531473, member: 24565"] I'd have to see the records and hopefully pictures of daughters and dam. And, remember, I have those old and new scars from breeding mistakes so that I can pretty easily cull myself out of a mainstream catalog. :o If EPDs are true, if EPDs do not inflate (I tend to believe that they have), ... I want to maintain a FS5, 1250 to 1450 (some few are also 1050 and up) cow that can wean a 535+/- pound calf on fescue and whatever grass, clover and weeds are there with minerals but also breed back for a 60 day season to calve around every 365 days or less. Pastures are largely legume driven without commercial fertilizer. Litter is applied as needed but no more than every 3 to 5 years. If the old EPDs are correct or close, that puts me in a old EPD range of WW 30-35 YW 45-50, MM 12-14, YH 0 or a tad higher, good on CEM, above average on HP if much data is there and not much motion on MH or MW. We have discussed BW and CED some months ago - I do not want stacked -BM or high +CED. I prefer BW in the 0 to 3 range with calf shape being snake-like rather than basketball shaped. I want a real calf and one that is not hampered by genetic links between low BW and low growth, thin muscle, ... And EPDs - they do not link well to our cattle. I remember old 205 - she had 10 to 12 calves, never assisted, sons and daughters never required assistance in later generations - they had her at the lowest CED of any cow in the herd at about -5. Other EPDs do not link well either. I also have the benefit of some unreported carcass data from sales of steers to a friend who did grassfed beef. I was pleased with those results. So, take a run through the AAA sire search and you will find few if any bulls with that balance. I just helped a guy south of me buy a starter herd. We did quite a search. There were disappointments in the sale cattle along the way because words and pictures did not match the real world. What ended up was that I knew of a solid breeder from a state or two north of here with a fairly linebred herd. We knew that his conditions and environment trumped anything south of him and sorted through some offering from the middle performance cattle of his herd. They have done great. The proof of fit will come next year. So sometimes it is OK to sit on the porch with the little dogs and let the big dogs have the yard. You have to know your environmental limitations and management limitations. We have discussed the semantics of the word "should". I use that word for myself because I have an obligation to buyers, customers, friends, neighbors to sell them breeder animals that will help and not hurt them. Maybe others see buyers as pawns or rubes. If the whole industry was congealed that all segments looked out for other segments and people beef would be far ahead in the whole and in the diets of people. Plan your work and work your plan. I know my limits and my limitations. I can add some WW if things improve and they have. We added 25 pounds by putting in additional watering points and more of it. I can boost growth with winter annuals, higher fertility, adequate rain, ... but the thing I really need is a herd of cows that can survive and produce in the sure-to-be drought periods and hot summers while eating fescue, eating around fescue, not getting pampered. When it finally does rain, I still want the cows bred and ready to calve again in 365. I cannot do that with extreme growth, extreme size or extreme milk production. Neither can the average neighbor's cattle. [/QUOTE]
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