Top Dollar Angus

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Interesting indeed, not real surprised though that the newer bull had somewhat superior carcass qualities, and growth.
After all that’s what several years of selective breeding should yield.
I would like to see a similar evaluation of calves from contemporary young sires of differing EPD’s, and also another evaluation using progeny of more proven but still fairly recent sires with differing EPD’s.
I’d also like to see an evaluation starting in the breeding pasture. Beginning with heifers from both young modern high growth high carcass number bulls, as well as heifers from older long running maternally focused herds. Be interesting to see how conception rates, calving details, % calves weaned etc compared.
From my experiences I have a hypothesis.
 
Ky hills said:
Interesting indeed, not real surprised though that the newer bull had somewhat superior carcass qualities, and growth.
After all that’s what several years of selective breeding should yield.
I would like to see a similar evaluation of calves from contemporary young sires of differing EPD’s, and also another evaluation using progeny of more proven but still fairly recent sires with differing EPD’s.
I’d also like to see an evaluation starting in the breeding pasture. Beginning with heifers from both young modern high growth high carcass number bulls, as well as heifers from older long running maternally focused herds. Be interesting to see how conception rates, calving details, % calves weaned etc compared.
From my experiences I have a hypothesis.
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I'd like to see studies done using the same cows on all bulls... but that's a can of worms. Still, it would be the only way to really get the best results.
 
Brute 23 said:
I'm not sure what they are doing to get the carcass numbers but I'm not impressed. We bought two BA bulls recenyly with good carcass numbers to boost the marketing of our calves. Both Bulls have fallen apart. They can't function on pasture with very moderate breeding.
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That’s exactly why I’m not a fan of pushing the carcass or any other single trait selection, and there really isn’t a such thing as a curve bender on all traits either. Even though a lot of bulls show that on paper. Nothing works in the pasture in the real world like it does on paper.
 
Ky hills said:
That’s exactly why I’m not a fan of pushing the carcass or any other single trait selection, and there really isn’t a such thing as a curve bender on all traits either. Even though a lot of bulls show that on paper. Nothing works in the pasture in the real world like it does on paper.
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Its just really odd to me. We run BA bulls but have never put an emphasis on carcass. We always bought from what seems like working, Angus bulls. We actually ended up with 3 bulls in total. I grabbed a smaller meat wagon for half the price as the "carcass bulls" that I couldn't pass up. Hes doing fine. Holding up good. No problems. Both the "carcass bulls" are trash.
 
Brute 23 said:
Its just really odd to me. We run BA bulls but have never put an emphasis on carcass. We always bought from what seems like working, Angus bulls. We actually ended up with 3 bulls in total. I grabbed a smaller meat wagon for half the price as the "carcass bulls" that I couldn't pass up. Hes doing fine. Holding up good. No problems. Both the "carcass bulls" are trash.
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I ran only registered Angus bulls for over 20 years, most were AI sired and a couple ET. Seemed like it was first one thing then another after a while and was having to replace bulls pretty often.
Tried to put together a small registered Angus cowherd too, and didn’t have much luck with that either,
Have also heard a couple registered breeders lamenting breed problems too.
 
Ky hills said:
I ran only registered Angus bulls for over 20 years, most were AI sired and a couple ET. Seemed like it was first one thing then another after a while and was having to replace bulls pretty often.
Tried to put together a small registered Angus cowherd too, and didn’t have much luck with that either,
Have also heard a couple registered breeders lamenting breed problems too.
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Both ours were ET bulls.
 
The study showed that the high growth, high carcass merit bull sired calves that are more profitable in a retained ownership situation. It did not change the cow herd in any way. So therefore there’s no affects to fertility or longevity. The calves were all terminal crosses.
It shows that bull selection can increase the hot carcass weight, marbling, ribeye area, and rate of gain of the calf enough to make it $200 per head more profitable.
Who does want to be more profitable!
 
J+ Cattle said:
The study showed that the high growth, high carcass merit bull sired calves that are more profitable in a retained ownership situation. It did not change the cow herd in any way. So therefore there’s no affects to fertility or longevity. The calves were all terminal crosses.
It shows that bull selection can increase the hot carcass weight, marbling, ribeye area, and rate of gain of the calf enough to make it $200 per head more profitable.
Who does want to be more profitable!
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From what I have seen over the years, the AI bull of the month aka the latest greatest EPD wonder gets used heavily across the board by many registered multipliers hoping to breed the next great one. Those registered heifers are marketed at premium prices just like their bull counterparts. Stack a few generations of high growth, carcass, curve bender do it all wonders and then try to make a make a cowherd out of that. Been there done that.
Not hating on Angus cattle, I like them, just not the direction the AAA, Semen companies, and movers and shakers are taking them. Those same trends and movements are in other breeds too.
 
GoWyo said:
Never breed the daughters of these bulls. Only leads to disappointment. Their strength is being on the rail.
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True about the disappointment, but I don’t think many of those registered daughters are ever marketed to be terminal cattle, they just end up that way after being failures in the field.
 
Thanks for the article J+. Really nice read, honestly surprised the difference was that great. Amazing you can move that many to Prime in one generation. Having fed out a few Enhance cattle I should not have been surprised. They marble exceptionally well in relation to other current AI sires. The thing we all tend to forget is that we all get paid for what we hang on the rail. And yes I have bred and calved out Enhance daughters, no problems on fertility or structure, but they are still young.. Tonight I can share some pics of Enhances but there is a reason he was the highest selling semen sire (Angus) in the last 2 years..
 
Brute 23 said:
I'm not sure what they are doing to get the carcass numbers but I'm not impressed. We bought two BA bulls recenyly with good carcass numbers to boost the marketing of our calves. Both Bulls have fallen apart. They can't function on pasture with very moderate breeding.
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How have they fallen apart and why do you think they're not functioning to breed on pasture well?...besides the lack of calving. Is it the weight or small legs....why aren't they breeding well?
 
TexasRancher said:
How have they fallen apart and why do you think they're not functioning to breed on pasture well?...besides the lack of calving. Is it the weight or small legs....why aren't they breeding well?
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They lose condition to the point of having to be brought back in prematurely. Our F1s and Xs are out grazing and they are panting in the shade, laid up by a tank. We had to catch one yesterday in the pasture that could barley get in the trailer.

Like I said, it not all our BA bulls. Just those 2 ET, carcass bulls. There is some thing clearly different about them. They are running side by side with our other bulls that are not having problems.
 
jscunn said:
Thanks for the article J+. Really nice read, honestly surprised the difference was that great. Amazing you can move that many to Prime in one generation. Having fed out a few Enhance cattle I should not have been surprised. They marble exceptionally well in relation to other current AI sires. The thing we all tend to forget is that we all get paid for what we hang on the rail. And yes I have bred and calved out Enhance daughters, no problems on fertility or structure, but they are still young.. Tonight I can share some pics of Enhances but there is a reason he was the highest selling semen sire (Angus) in the last 2 years..
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Yes, I found it interesting that the Enhance calves went 50% Prime and the other calves had 0% Prime. The choice/select spread is usually a significant amount and then the CAB and Prime premiums are on top of that. If there is excessive trim fat it lowers the yield grade but that deduction is small in comparison. The bottom line is that top quality carcasses pays the bills. The study used F1 Hereford x Angus cows bred to Angus bulls so they were all British breeding which would give better results than Brahma or Continental crosses but it shows what can be done with proper bull selection.
 
Brute 23 said:
Like I said, it not all our BA bulls. Just those 2 ET, carcass bulls. There is some thing clearly different about them. They are running side by side with our other bulls that are not having problems.
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Brute as you said it isn't all of the black Angus bulls just those two, how do you know it's the marbling and not something else causing the problem?
Maybe those two bulls are doing all of the breeding in the pasture, I don't know what it is because I'm not there everyday. All I'm saying is that you could be jumping to a conclusion that it's related to their carcass merit.
 
J+ Cattle said:
Brute as you said it isn't all of the black Angus bulls just those two, how do you know it's the marbling and not something else causing the problem?
Maybe those two bulls are doing all of the breeding in the pasture, I don't know what it is because I'm not there everyday. All I'm saying is that you could be jumping to a conclusion that it's related to their carcass merit.
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I never said it was the marbling. I am am just stating I bought two ET, carcass bulls. Neither has been able to survive in our conditions next to their other BA counter parts. Every one can draw their own conclusions but I will not be a test dummy for that deal any more.

If yall are running both side by side yall are more than welcome to share yalls experiences also. I would love to hear them.
 
Brute 23 said:
They lose condition to the point of having to be brought back in prematurely. Our F1s and Xs are out grazing and they are panting in the shade, laid up by a tank. We had to catch one yesterday in the pasture that could barley get in the trailer.

Like I said, it not all our BA bulls. Just those 2 ET, carcass bulls. There is some thing clearly different about them. They are running side by side with our other bulls that are not having problems.
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Are the sire and dam from warm weather climate? I ask because I have found that I don’t have much luck with ai sires from cold weather climates and/or not from the fescue belt.
 

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