Thoughs on r-calf?

[skcatlman]

I have only been on here a short time but it seems like only a couple of people are big time R-CALF people. what do other producers think of this organization Helpful or not? useful or not ? Helping or hurting Cattle industry? Do they speak for most US cattlemen? or are they a small group vocal but misguided ?

 

[mwj]

I have only been on here a short time but it seems like only a couple of people are big time R-CALF people. what do other producers think of this organization Helpful or not? useful or not ? Helping or hurting Cattle industry? Do they speak for most US cattlemen? or are they a small group vocal but misguided ?

No they do not speak for the majority of US producers! You can read and draw your own conclusions on the other questions.

 

[Oldtimer]

I have only been on here a short time but it seems like only a couple of people are big time R-CALF people. what do other producers think of this organization Helpful or not? useful or not ? Helping or hurting Cattle industry? Do they speak for most US cattlemen? or are they a small group vocal but misguided ?

skcatlman-- Of the two cattle organizations in the US R-CALF is the fastest growing having only been in existence about 7 years- and up until the last few years was concentrated mostly in the mountain and Canadian border states- but is now expanding nationwide...

If you combined both the cattle organizations- R-CALF and NCBA - membership you would have only about 5% of the cattle producers in the US...Many belong to and are represented by other groups such as National Farmers Union or Farm Bureau....But probably the biggest majority are like in most industries-- onlookers, who belong to nothing.....

 

[nebraskadave]

We support R-CALF. When you look at the growth of this organization in such a short period of time, it is impressive. If it were just a small group I don't believe Johanns would bother to take the time to attend and speak at the R-CALF convention next week. I'm sure he would rather not be there, but he knows that it is a strong grassroots organization that can not be ignored. NCBA also knows it is being watched closely on what it says and supports. Quite honestly I for one like listening to both NCBA and R-CALF and drawing my own opinions.

 

[Beef11]

I'm what Oldtimer describes as an onlooker. I do like the way R-Calf does some things but i don't pay enough attention to feel good about joining up with them...yet. I'm pro trade reform and think that R-calf caters to the Cow calf man while the NCBA tends to cuddle up to the feedyards and packers a bit more. Really, I like the existance of rcalf because they keep the politicans and the NCBA honest. It seems like the Canadians tend to not like Rcalf.

 

[skcatlman]

This is responding to beef eleven , most if not all canadian cattlemen i know put R-calf in the same group with PETA. I have been on other cattle sites and eventually a r-calf member attacks me personally , my cattle and or canada , then raises issues that have nothing to do with cattle. All the bad things are blamed on canada. So i hope this isn't allowed here. Personally i think as north american cattlemen if we work togerther we can solve this problem, but fighting and mud slinging won't do any good for anyone.

 

[Beef11]

I've got my issues with Canada but as a whole they aren't bad neighbors. I think that the US and Canada need to protect their industry. I believe in fair trade and production rules for cattle destined to export/import market. I get riled when Canadians are upset at the US about their lack of infrastructure. Which was made very apparant during the border closure. I myself don't mind seeing the border open with Canada for live cattle (not just slaughter bound). I'm a big fan of COOL, when someone goes to the store and picks up some meat it should say "Product of --------". This would hold countries accountable for the product they produce. If it sucks people will figure it out.

 

[nebraskadave]

Skcatlman, don't throw all R-CALF members into the same pot. Every organization has it's radicals. I personally have nothing against Canadian cattlemen, but we are not a "North American beef industry". I think the multi-national companies would like to see that. I can understand the frustration Canadians have with R-CALF, but to call it like PETA is off base, remember PETA is "People Eating Tasty Animals" anyway. R-CALF was formed to look out for the best interest of American cattle producers, not the North American beef industry.

Beef 11 wrote "Really, I like the existance of rcalf because they keep the politicans and the NCBA honest. I agree with that and when politicians get mentioned, you know the multinationals are on the other side pushing for what they want, that is why M-COOL is on hold.

Skcatlman, I wish you luck, nothing against you personally.

 

[skcatlman]

Nebraskadave have you not been paying attention there is a thing called NAFTA (north amarican free trade agreement) that was sighned years ago that changed trade in north america and the beef industry became a multinational industry and at the point now unless the US wants to go back on its trade agreements the US cattlmen is stuck with it. So yes the red meat trade is a north american industry.
As far as being off base with the comparison of r-calf to PETA is not r-calf a special interest group, a group that has a narrow focus, a group that will not release its membership list to the public, a group that will not release its financial records to the public, if i am wrong then i appoligize and no r-calf is not like PETA.
This is to beef11 and Dave - cool may be a idea but only if it is followed to the letter. by that i mean if ground beef is mixed percentages and trace out labels for every country must be provided as well as the percentage of product is labeled.
Here is a question currently and animal slaughtered and graded in the US in federally inspected plant is considered a product of the USA. So where do you propose that the counrty of origin be determined? Is it birth place, what if a calf was born in canada but raised ,fed , finshed slaughtered , graded and packaged in the US is it still a product of canada i would not want to claim it as it would not truely be a product of canada and not graded in canada. This COOL system will be very difficult to implement because there is already so much intergration of the north american market. In order to implement m-cool all trade partners must set international health and grading standards to make the playing field level. And from my stand point that means no irradiated beef being sold in my country. There must also be laws implemented to prevent misleading, negative and attack ads when it comes to food products being sold withn north america that would only be fair And truely let the comsumer see which product they prefer.

 

[Oldtimer]

Here is a question currently and animal slaughtered and graded in the US in federally inspected plant is considered a product of the USA. So where do you propose that the counrty of origin be determined? Is it birth place, what if a calf was born in canada but raised ,fed , finshed slaughtered , graded and packaged in the US is it still a product of canada i would not want to claim it as it would not truely be a product of canada and not graded in canada..

How the M-COOL law is written is that it has to be born, raised, and slaughtered in the US to qualify as a Product of the USA...Anything thats been out of the US (either born, or fed, or slaughtered in a foreign country) becomes a product of that country...
This is the law that is now set to go into effect in 2008- but which I believe Congress will now fasttrack to 2007....

 

[skcatlman]

OK so from bred to dead in the USA ,then and only then it's product of USA according to M-COOL law. So how does it work for processed meat products, if an grind product from another country is put into an processed meat (IE. salami, summer sausage). I do hope there is a plan for that because the USA is and for the foreseeable future in a deficite in the ground beef market. So how would that be labeled? because it is made in the USA and i don't know what was put into it , where are the spices from and i would think that puting a label on a product made in the USA, but wait there is some meat in it from mexico, so would mexico allow the usa to label it made in mexico. sure that will happen. LOL LMAO
There are either going to be companies lying or not complying that is the reality.

 

[Oldtimer]

OK so from bred to dead in the USA ,then and only then it's product of USA according to M-COOL law. So how does it work for processed meat products, if an grind product from another country is put into an processed meat (IE. salami, summer sausage). I do hope there is a plan for that because the USA is and for the foreseeable future in a deficite in the ground beef market. So how would that be labeled? because it is made in the USA and i don't know what was put into it , where are the spices from and i would think that puting a label on a product made in the USA, but wait there is some meat in it from mexico, so would mexico allow the usa to label it made in mexico. sure that will happen. LOL LMAO
There are either going to be companies lying or not complying that is the reality.

If it contains any foreign beef it must be so marked...The Montana M-COOL which is just now being implemented requires such "mixed" product to be placarded either with the countries it came from- or of "Mixed" or "Unknown Origin"....It just requires the retailer tell the consumer the truth- and not pass off known Canadian or Mexican beef as US product....

 

[skcatlman]

Ok , i see that there is already loopholes built into M-COOL, unknown origin ? LMAO LOL. Get real, give me a break, it seems that R-calf members want the consumer to know where beef comes from so they can make an informed choice, but only if it is US beef of the highest quality, not if it is low quality. How can there be the origin unknown, aren't records are kept of the country of origin of meats when imported, but there would be lots of paperwork. Origin unknown will allow US producers to pass off lower quality US processed beef as from origin unknown (AKA imported meat )WOW!!! what a conveniant loophole. Attention r-calf shouldn't you guys be out there protecting the US consumer and US cattleman. I thought that is what R-calf was all about. How can in this day and age ,after bse can a country allow a processed beef product to be sold as origin unknown??? Hi, i have some salami for sale, this is a salami but i don't know where the meat in it comes from ???? Want to buy some ??? How can it be labeled origin unknown, wasn't the meat used to make it inspected ??? if not how can it be sold for human consumption. I though COOL might be good ,but not if there are such loopholes. M-COOL is quite simply a joke. But not many are laughing.

 

[Oldtimer]

Ok , i see that there is already loopholes built into M-COOL, unknown origin ? LMAO LOL. Get real, give me a break, it seems that R-calf members want the consumer to know where beef comes from so they can make an informed choice, but only if it is US beef of the highest quality, not if it is low quality. How can there be the origin unknown, aren't records are kept of the country of origin of meats when imported, but there would be lots of paperwork. Origin unknown will allow US producers to pass off lower quality US processed beef as from origin unknown (AKA imported meat )WOW!!! what a conveniant loophole. Attention r-calf shouldn't you guys be out there protecting the US consumer and US cattleman. I thought that is what R-calf was all about. How can in this day and age ,after bse can a country allow a processed beef product to be sold as origin unknown??? Hi, i have some salami for sale, this is a salami but i don't know where the meat in it comes from ???? Want to buy some ??? How can it be labeled origin unknown, wasn't the meat used to make it inspected ??? if not how can it be sold for human consumption. I though COOL might be good ,but not if there are such loopholes. M-COOL is quite simply a joke. But not many are laughing.

skcattleman-- That is the Montana M-COOL that allows the origin unknown or mixed...I don't believe all the rules for the US M-COOL have been finalized...And you are right-That was done to ease the paperwork of the retailer, so that when he puts trim in from 10 different countries that he didn't have to list them- didn't have to make a dozen different placards-- but he can- and under the Homeland Security import laws he still needs to keep that record...But the consumer will have the choice of also buying all Product of USA burger/product too-- and if its market profiitable I imagine Product of Canada burger/product also....

You are right its not perfect- but it is a step forward from the current system -- where ALL product, no matter if its from Canada, Mexico, Uruguay, Argentina or Timbuktu are all stamped with the USDA stamp and passed off to consumers as US product.....Outright FRAUD........

The only ones that fear M-COOL are those from countries that think their product is not good enough to make it on its own name and needs to be passed off as a US product in order to sell....

 

[skcatlman]

Hi oldtimer i am one canadian cattleman thinks that country of origin would be good if done properly and fairly. One flaw i find is that COOL is from where the animal was born. And that makes very little sense. If you apply that rule to farm equipment then with the majoprity of steel coming from canada then every piece of equipment manufactured in the USA should carry a sticker made in canada.
The reason for the USDA stamp is because the US govenment has inspected and certified that piece of food fit for human consumption according to it's rules and regulation it has nothing to do with importing countries trying to mislead customers.
As far as being afraid of COOL i am not, but does your M-COOL regulations take into account that it is illegal for anyone other than a canadian federal food inspection agency employee to stamp a food product with a made in canada stamp unless it has been inspection by that employee. I just have a funny feeling that the WTO will have problems with the US stamping product of where ever on a piece of food because that means that it has to be inspected in that particular country not the US. I personally think that if an item is physically produced in a country that is the country of origin it should carry. For example a steer from canada is slaughtered in the US and cut into various cuts of meat, the the steer is a product of canada ,but the meat products are a product of the USA as that is where the animal was processed and steaks were produced. Now stamping the meat you propose according to COOL it be a product of canada, the US slaughter plants may or may not meet canadaian standards, the grading system is not the same so what candadian grade does the animal get, as it is product of canada. What CFIA employee inspected it. So according to M-COOL you would have product of canada stamp and a USDA inspection stamp and grade stamp? It's not that i am worried about going head to head but i think you are opening a huge can of worms that will cause problems for the US for years . But that is your choice.

 

[Oldtimer]

skcattleman-- The Canadian/Mexican/Australian boxed beef is already coming in with a Product of Canada/Mexico/Australia label on the box- along with the plant and lot....What is happening thru the USDA blessed loophole in the law is that the Packer/Retailer is removing it from the box- repackaging and relabeling with a USDA inspected stamp (even when 99.995% is never looked at by a USDA employee) and passed off to US consumers as US beef...That is outright FRAUD....

As far as M-COOL being acceptable by WTO- most of the countries of the world already have it- with Canada and the US being the exception....And the only reason we have not had it for a long time is because of the control exerted by the multinational Corporate Packers that dominate our industry- and want to continue marketing and passing off cheap beef from anywhere in the world as US product for their profit....

 

[Oldtimer]

Editorial: Congress: Get COOL



A Cap Times editorial, Jan. 17, 2007

The Capital Times

Madison, Wisconsin



The new Congress has many demands on it, some of them complex and challenging. But one of the most important steps that this Congress can take is an exceptionally easy, and exceptionally popular, one.



In 2002, Congress overwhelmingly enacted Country of Origin Labeling (COOL) legislation, which requires retailers to inform consumers about which country produced their beef, pork, lamb, produce, peanuts and seafood. For a variety of reasons ranging from concerns about health standards to a desire to "buy local" and encourage sustainable development the legislation had strong appeal.



So why aren't most foods labeled according to COOL standards?



The food industry did not want to be honest with the American people. Working with their Republican allies in key congressional positions, industry lobbyists succeeded in blocking COOL



With Democrats such as Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin and Wisconsin Rep. Dave Obey taking over the chairmanships of the Senate Agriculture Committee and the House Appropriations, respectively, a coalition of organizations that include the National Farmers Union, as well as the Consumer Federation of America, the National Consumers League and other groups, has written a letter urging the newly empowered committee chairmen to move rapidly to provide the Department of Agriculture with implementation funds and to require the department to immediately prepare a plan for implementing mandatory country-of-origin labeling.

It is time to get this done.



madison.com

 

[skcatlman]

You just don't get it !!!!, if product like boxed beef is coming into the US the counrty where it is processed stamps their own label on it. It would be like me buying wheat from the US and milling it the selling the flour as product of the USA. The wheat would be product of USA ,but the flour would be product of Canada. If your country changes in any way the product then it should be product of the USA. How much more simple can i make it. The beef coming in isn't US beef and no stamp goes on it that states grown in the US but inspected by the USDA to ensure the US consumer that the product is safe to eat maybe you should educate your consumer and they will know how to read and understand a label. What i was saying about the WTO is that i do not think that they would let it go as far as the US deciding on exporting product from the USA and labelling it product from somewhere else. And that is what can happen if the rules are applied as you have stated. Passoff the responsilbity again, blame your goverment for your problems , you have no reason to be culpible. Oh wait ! You elect the politicians that hire USDA employees so this is all your own fault.

 

[Oldtimer]

You just don't get it !!!!, if product like boxed beef is coming into the US the counrty where it is processed stamps their own label on it. It would be like me buying wheat from the US and milling it the selling the flour as product of the USA. The wheat would be product of USA ,but the flour would be product of Canada. If your country changes in any way the product then it should be product of the USA. How much more simple can i make it. The beef coming in isn't US beef and no stamp goes on it that states grown in the US but inspected by the USDA to ensure the US consumer that the product is safe to eat maybe you should educate your consumer and they will know how to read and understand a label. What i was saying about the WTO is that i do not think that they would let it go as far as the US deciding on exporting product from the USA and labelling it product from somewhere else. And that is what can happen if the rules are applied as you have stated. Passoff the responsilbity again, blame your goverment for your problems , you have no reason to be culpible. Oh wait ! You elect the politicians that hire USDA employees so this is all your own fault.

How are the packers/retailers changing/processing meat?
They take it out of a box marked product of Canada-wrap it in plastic wrap- slap on a USDA sticker- and then PASS IT OFF to unknowing consumers as US product...

And the US was sending Canadian meat to Japan packaged as a product of US- until Japan required segregation after the Canadian BSE outbreak.....

Both are FRAUD- and if you can't see that then I feel sorry for you...Its probably too late in life to start teaching you about ethics and morality......

And M-COOL will become law in the US in 2007...US consumers will have the opportunity to know where the product in the store cases come from....If Canadians don't want to know where theirs comes from- thats up to them....

 

[skcatlman]

As far as passing off canadian beef with a USDA sticker as US beef that is a cop out. What the USDA sticker tells me is that it has been inspected by the USDA to ensure it is good enought quality for human consumption. If the consumer isn't informed enough to look for where the product comes, that is not fraud. Maybe spend some money on educating the consumer on what to look for. Believe me i know about morals and ethics,i think it is you that should go back to sunday school and learn about lies and half truths and how they are the same thing. It is laughable for you to comment on morality or ethics, check out your previous posts.