Thinking about cattle

[AaronM]

Hello all,

I have searched the topic, and feel ready to post my own questions. I'm thinking about buying a few cattle next summer. I will try to list all relevant background information before I get to my questions.

My father currently runs a buffalo operation with 30 head. We have 320 acres in Northern Minnesota. 50 of those acres go relatively unused as we don't have the head to maximize our pastures, so it has fallen into neglect. I'm not so sure that buffalo are for me. I will have a full-time job, and can't justify the headaches of having to worry about such a large and dangerous creature if they decide to make a break for it. If I go into the cattle business, I would want a breed that shares some of the qualities as buffalo, such as good calvers, can get heavy on 100% grass, and are naturally polled. We have all the fences, two tractors, and good hay already. These 50 acres are separated from where the buffalo roam, so I am not worried about cross-talk between the herds. I would like to start with 4-5 females and one bull, and grow to around 20-25 females and two bulls. Eventually, when my father retires and I have more land access, I would attempt to fully maximize our acreage. Galloways initially appealed to me, but their poor market performance has turned me away from them. Looks like angus has the best PR directors in the country, and command strong market returns.

1. What are things I need to look at, or need to expect, from cattle from a guy who knows very little about them?

2. What breeds can handle the cold, be efficient grazers, and still command a good market value at auction?

3. I am aware of self-marketing strategies, but I would be looking to grow the calves, and sell. (Is it best to sell in the fall, or wait until the spring? with buffalo, we sell every fall)

4. Do most operations bring their own animals to market, or are there companies that purchase and pick-up? (Our stock trailer holds 4-6)

5. What costs would I be looking at per head, per year? Vaccinations, etc.

6. In the past 10 years, what is the average net I can expect, per head, based on me grass-feeding and question number 5?


Thank you all for your help, and I apologize for the extremely general questions that probably get asked on a monthly basis. I would appreciate any help or direction with any of these questions, and look forward to the discussion about my intentions.

 

[AllForage]

First off too many questions. Second, as far as net it will be negative.

Northern MN= short summers and long winters so I would go with a moderate sized cow with moderate milk production. Calve on 6" of grass and make the mommas nurse for 8-10 months. Wean and sell in spring as yearlings. Don't worry about what PR says about breed or what the barn says. Your numbers are too small to worry and there are tons of different marketing options in your area regardless of age of marketing. Raise what you like and you will eventually figure out it is more profitable to market your stuff directly than sell a commodity. So make the right decisions now. For a beginner I don't think you can go wrong with some short wide Hereford mommas.

 

[Limomike]

Hello all,

I have searched the topic, and feel ready to post my own questions. I'm thinking about buying a few cattle next summer. I will try to list all relevant background information before I get to my questions.


1. What are things I need to look at, or need to expect, from cattle from a guy who knows very little about them?
First of all, cattle are also a large animal and CAN be dangerous, but I understand your thoughts on buffalo. I gotta friend of mine who runs and operation in Steamboat Springs, Colo, and they run Buffalo, AND a Red Angus herd.

2. What breeds can handle the cold, be efficient grazers, and still command a good market value at auction?
I personally prefer Red Angus, with a Limousin bull, but thats just my preference. If I was starting over as a young man, I would more than likely go with Hereford cows, and a homo black bull.

3. I am aware of self-marketing strategies, but I would be looking to grow the calves, and sell. (Is it best to sell in the fall, or wait until the spring? with buffalo, we sell every fall)
Depends on your markets up there. Check around to see what is good for your area.

4. Do most operations bring their own animals to market, or are there companies that purchase and pick-up? (Our stock trailer holds 4-6) At first you could haul your own, if you have the handling facilities, but you would eventually need a bigger trailer. But some folks around here, I know pay others to round em up and haul em off.

5. What costs would I be looking at per head, per year? Vaccinations, etc.
That all depends on your operation, IE.. Do you own the land, or lease? buying hay or using your own, costs of labor, gas, feed, vet ..etc. I could tell you what mine is per head, for LAST year, but every operation is different.

6. In the past 10 years, what is the average net I can expect, per head, based on me grass-feeding and question number 5?
Now thats the million $$ question... everything depends on cost, and the value of your product.

Dont know if that was of any help to you, but there ya go.

 

[AaronM]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Limomike. I appreciate the feedback. I guess at the end of the day my main concern is the business side of cattle. Can it pay to raise them? I know from experience that there has been money in buffalo, but distribution channels are limited. Any thoughts would again be appreciated.

 

[AllForage]

AaronM,

The production side of cattle rarely lines up with the best begotten plans. I am sure you are aware of this with bison. Only thing I can add is that bison are still an exotic with unique circumstances. Right now the price is high. Cattle have a lot more marketing channels.

Your largest cost hands down is winter feed. If you can get a handle on your cost, taking into consideration ways of reducing hay feeding, this is your largest profit indicator. Generally the less stored feed that you use, the higher your chance for profit will be. Everyone's situation is different as to direct cost.

Cattle are also a business of scale and the initial investment will have to be amortized over several years to come out. It is a high cost low profit business if all things are considered.

 

[thendrix]

First off :welcome:

Now a few comments:

1) Cattle may seem like fairly docile creatures and in my experience that is reasonably correct with 75 - 80 percent of animals 75 - 80 percent of the time. Either way,whether it's a 1500 lbs. cow or buffalo or whatever, if they want to hurt you they will do so and handling them isn't something you should try to learn on the fly. You would be well served to find someone in your area with cows and befriend them and learn as much as you can about handling these animals safely.

2) You mentioned growing to 20 - 25 cows and 2 bulls. 1 good, mature, well taken care of bull should be able to service up to 40 or so cows

3) AllForage mentioned winter feed being a big factor in profit. This is the truth as true as it can be told. Use everything at your disposal to decrease feed waste i.e. hay rings, feeders, mineral feeders, etc...

4) When you decide to buy, buy the best you can. Don't buy cheap cattle because there is a reason they are cheap! If you buy cheap you WILL spend those savings on medications, vets, animals lost, etc......

Raising cattle is the most enjoyable, most aggrivating, most profitable, most expensive adventure I have ever had and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do

 

[Karin]

Hello all,

I have searched the topic, and feel ready to post my own questions. I'm thinking about buying a few cattle next summer. I will try to list all relevant background information before I get to my questions.

My father currently runs a buffalo operation with 30 head. We have 320 acres in Northern Minnesota. 50 of those acres go relatively unused as we don't have the head to maximize our pastures, so it has fallen into neglect. I'm not so sure that buffalo are for me. I will have a full-time job, and can't justify the headaches of having to worry about such a large and dangerous creature if they decide to make a break for it. If I go into the cattle business, I would want a breed that shares some of the qualities as buffalo, such as good calvers, can get heavy on 100% grass, and are naturally polled. We have all the fences, two tractors, and good hay already. These 50 acres are separated from where the buffalo roam, so I am not worried about cross-talk between the herds. I would like to start with 4-5 females and one bull, and grow to around 20-25 females and two bulls. Eventually, when my father retires and I have more land access, I would attempt to fully maximize our acreage. Galloways initially appealed to me, but their poor market performance has turned me away from them. Looks like angus has the best PR directors in the country, and command strong market returns.

Don't get caught up on that. Angus ain't everything, it's just a marketing ploy to get more consumers to eat meat from "Angus" cattle that are mostly of black hide than Angus. Galloway is great if you're not marketing your animals through the mainstream market, but through a niche-market instead. You're better at getting more income going that way anyway than selling them through the auction mart. JMHO

1. What are things I need to look at, or need to expect, from cattle from a guy who knows very little about them?

Cattle are different from bison, certainly as far as handling them and assessing behavior is concerned. Don't treat cattle like bison, otherwise you may end up in a bit of trouble.

2. What breeds can handle the cold, be efficient grazers, and still command a good market value at auction?

Any breed that doesn't have a bit of zebu (or Brahman) in them will be able to handle the cold, anything from Longhorns to Simmental. If you want efficient grazers go British-bred cattle like Hereford, Shorthorn, Murray Grey, Red Poll, etc. Anything that's red can be bred to a black bull to get black calves....and get you good market value at the auction, if that's the way you want to go.

3. I am aware of self-marketing strategies, but I would be looking to grow the calves, and sell. (Is it best to sell in the fall, or wait until the spring? with buffalo, we sell every fall)

That all depends on your market and what time of the year you want your cows to calve and whether or not you are wanting to background your calves before sending them off to market as yearlings. So you have a choice: sell them as weanlings, or sell them as yearlings.

4. Do most operations bring their own animals to market, or are there companies that purchase and pick-up? (Our stock trailer holds 4-6)

That's your choice what you want to do and what's more cost effective for you. Also depends on whether you want to sell the calves as-is right on the farm from a direct-market or private-treaty buyer, or accept the mark-up for shrink for shipping them to the auction. It's your choice and your buyer's choice as well, depending on who you choose to sell to.

5. What costs would I be looking at per head, per year? Vaccinations, etc.

Research benchmark costs for your area. Every area is different. Even here in Alberta benchmark costs differ throughout various areas of this province, from the Peace area down to the area near and south of Calgary. As someone else already mentioned, your winter feeding costs will be the highest over veterinary costs especially when they involve fuel and feed. What kind of enterprises you have in your entire operation (crops, haying, silaging, pasture, backgrounding) as well as your fixed costs (i.e., land rent) and variable costs (i.e., fuel, feed, fertilizer, etc) will all have a play on what your costs will be per cow per year. The more days/months you can graze in a year, the lower the costs you will have. The better the cow herd you first start off with, the lower the costs too, generally speaking.

6. In the past 10 years, what is the average net I can expect, per head, based on me grass-feeding and question number 5?

I really don't think that's a question anyone can ever accurately answer on here. Even estimations will be all over the map.


Thank you all for your help, and I apologize for the extremely general questions that probably get asked on a monthly basis. I would appreciate any help or direction with any of these questions, and look forward to the discussion about my intentions.

I know there's others with a lot more experience that can put their two cents in, but that's as good as advice as I can give. Welcome to CT and good luck!

 

[Limomike]

Raising cattle is the most enjoyable, most aggrivating, most profitable, most expensive adventure I have ever had and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do[/quote]

Amen to that!!

 

[B&M Farms]

Look at what type of cattle most folks in your area that have been raising cattle for a while are raising now. There is usually a reason.

 

[Galloways1]

Quality Galloway cross calves sell just fine at auction barns.

Run some Galloway or high persntage Galloway females.

Calve them in April, bred to a the bull of your choice. Hereford for baldies, Char for smokes, Sim, Limi, Gelb, Shorthorn, sell your calves off the cow in Nov.

Your cows will be efficient and good grazers while. They will graze for the longest period of time in hard winters when the snow is deep.

 

[Taurus]

Quality Galloway cross calves sell just fine at auction barns.

Run some Galloway or high persntage Galloway females.

Calve them in April, bred to a the bull of your choice. Hereford for baldies, Char for smokes, Sim, Limi, Gelb, Shorthorn, sell your calves off the cow in Nov.

Your cows will be efficient and good grazers while. They will graze for the longest period of time in hard winters when the snow is deep.

You will get docked at the sale barn for have too much hair, despite of being black. No different from belted or spotted calves.

That said, there's lot of black & red angus cattle up north, plus few good limiousin & hereford cattle breeders as well. You can find few good cheap hereford cows at reasonable prices and use a homo black bull of any breed on these cows.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I believe you will find that the national average cost of keeping a cow is around $500/yr. Now, as mentioned, winter feed cost can make that figure much higher or lower.
Oh yeah - :welcome: from New York.
And I would suggest a commercial herd of Angus/Herefords & breed with a homozygous black Simmental bull. Of course I am a Simmental breeder. But, I think if you do some checking, feedlot buyers really like the Continental x british calves.

 

[BC]

[quoteBut, I think if you do some checking, feedlot buyers really like the Continental x british calves.][/quote] Take that message to heart. Since you are in Minnesota, use an easy fleshing British cow and breed to a Continental bull.

 

[gonzo]

:welcome: Nice hearford cows and a good angus bull =black bauldies = easy keeping ,marketable calfs. i've seen a couple buffalo operations if your fenced for that cattle shouldn't be a problem