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<blockquote data-quote="DOC HARRIS" data-source="post: 140289" data-attributes="member: 1683"><p>ollie' -</p><p>Once again we are confronted with the old Demon of "Misunderstanding". This type of situation has existed since the Tower of Babel! ollie', I am not at war with you in the discussion of Phenotype and Genotype! I take exception to your thinking that "we couldn't disagree more!"</p><p></p><p>Take notice of two phrases I used in my post of November 11, 12:21 P.M.: "YOU ARE CORRECT" and " . . .selecting breeding stock by phenotype <strong><u>ONLY</u></strong> . . .! If we disagree at all it is by a degree of percentage only. I can't tell you how many times I have <em>stressed</em> a "BALANCE" between Phenotype (looks) and Genotype (EPD's).</p><p></p><p>You mentioned J.C.Penny's Homeplace Herd. They were deep, roomy, long-spined (although too short-legged, as were most Beef cattle of that era), and EPD's were unknown at that time! The contention which seems to exist between Phenotype and Genotype should not be a factor at all! The debate, if you care to refer to it as that, should be a BALANCING ACT, as a Teeter-totter, and Phenotype and Genotype should be compatible and working TOGETHER - not in opposition to each other.</p><p></p><p>Your question in regard as to which EPD's will help you find "deep, roomy, long-spined, comfortable type cattle that are meaty with lots of width" can be answered two ways: </p><p>1) A well-balanced blend of ALL epd's.</p><p>2) Unfortunately, there are a number of physical or type traits which do not have EPD's capable of description or transmission as yet.</p><p>That sounds like a confliction, but the functional traits are being studied and worked on "as we speak" as the saying goes. If everything were perfect today, every breeder would have ALL his cattle in a single contemporary group, and all of the breeders problems and questions would be solved. That situation will NEVER happen in this life! Ergo, we continue to strive and struggle and think and become educated and aware of changes in thinking for the improvement of our beloved BUSINESS.</p><p></p><p>Dr. Harlan Ritchie has combined his thoughts and some explanations concerning this very subject, ollie', in a treatise which almost says it all. I say "almost" because no one will ever be capable in saying it all! Please log onto this site and read it. He says it far better than I, and I think that you will have to agree regarding - - KEEPING THINGS IN BALANCE.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.msu.edu/~ritchie/papers/keepingthingsinbalance.html" target="_blank">http://www.msu.edu/~ritchie/papers/keep ... lance.html</a></p><p></p><p>DOC HARRIS</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DOC HARRIS, post: 140289, member: 1683"] ollie' - Once again we are confronted with the old Demon of "Misunderstanding". This type of situation has existed since the Tower of Babel! ollie', I am not at war with you in the discussion of Phenotype and Genotype! I take exception to your thinking that "we couldn't disagree more!" Take notice of two phrases I used in my post of November 11, 12:21 P.M.: "YOU ARE CORRECT" and " . . .selecting breeding stock by phenotype [b][u]ONLY[/u][/b] . . .! If we disagree at all it is by a degree of percentage only. I can't tell you how many times I have [i]stressed[/i] a "BALANCE" between Phenotype (looks) and Genotype (EPD's). You mentioned J.C.Penny's Homeplace Herd. They were deep, roomy, long-spined (although too short-legged, as were most Beef cattle of that era), and EPD's were unknown at that time! The contention which seems to exist between Phenotype and Genotype should not be a factor at all! The debate, if you care to refer to it as that, should be a BALANCING ACT, as a Teeter-totter, and Phenotype and Genotype should be compatible and working TOGETHER - not in opposition to each other. Your question in regard as to which EPD's will help you find "deep, roomy, long-spined, comfortable type cattle that are meaty with lots of width" can be answered two ways: 1) A well-balanced blend of ALL epd's. 2) Unfortunately, there are a number of physical or type traits which do not have EPD's capable of description or transmission as yet. That sounds like a confliction, but the functional traits are being studied and worked on "as we speak" as the saying goes. If everything were perfect today, every breeder would have ALL his cattle in a single contemporary group, and all of the breeders problems and questions would be solved. That situation will NEVER happen in this life! Ergo, we continue to strive and struggle and think and become educated and aware of changes in thinking for the improvement of our beloved BUSINESS. Dr. Harlan Ritchie has combined his thoughts and some explanations concerning this very subject, ollie', in a treatise which almost says it all. I say "almost" because no one will ever be capable in saying it all! Please log onto this site and read it. He says it far better than I, and I think that you will have to agree regarding - - KEEPING THINGS IN BALANCE. [url=http://www.msu.edu/~ritchie/papers/keepingthingsinbalance.html]http://www.msu.edu/~ritchie/papers/keep ... lance.html[/url] DOC HARRIS [/QUOTE]
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