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There are some true Angus left!
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<blockquote data-quote="ollie&#039;" data-source="post: 140280" data-attributes="member: 2432"><p>Doc, here is where we go our seperate ways. You take one fork and I take the other. We couldn't disagree more. By phenotype I narrowly mean body type. I dont' mean weights or epd's (although I mean weight more than epd's). I think mostly gone are the days were you could look at the J C Penny herd ( I am using them because I know you are familiar with them. I am not advocating that type and never saw them they were reported to me to be consistant)and know what kind of phenotype EVERY cow would be. There isn't a consistant phenotype program in many , if any , herds in the country. While I will grant you lots of herds have the same numbers , some will be big , some little , some pretty and some ugly. In each herd some will be productive and some will not. The reason for non productive cows in some of the more popular herds is :lets all say it together now "contemporary grouping". I wish I knew where there were consistant bred herds of cattle with the same phenotype cattle that I like and that I think will work in my herd. There are lots of herds that have a few cattle I like but few herds that have lots of cattle I like and very few to none that have all the type cattle I like. That is what I refer to when I say it takes a life time. I can build a set of numbers in a few generations but if I was using epd's to breed spots off of cattle how long would it take? I am not saying epds are completely worthless but in breeding a cattle with a certain visual phenotype they won't help. I find a certain type cattle work on my place , numbers or no numbers. They have to be deep, roomy, long spined , comfortable type cattle that are meaty with lots of width. What epd's will help me find them????</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ollie', post: 140280, member: 2432"] Doc, here is where we go our seperate ways. You take one fork and I take the other. We couldn't disagree more. By phenotype I narrowly mean body type. I dont' mean weights or epd's (although I mean weight more than epd's). I think mostly gone are the days were you could look at the J C Penny herd ( I am using them because I know you are familiar with them. I am not advocating that type and never saw them they were reported to me to be consistant)and know what kind of phenotype EVERY cow would be. There isn't a consistant phenotype program in many , if any , herds in the country. While I will grant you lots of herds have the same numbers , some will be big , some little , some pretty and some ugly. In each herd some will be productive and some will not. The reason for non productive cows in some of the more popular herds is :lets all say it together now "contemporary grouping". I wish I knew where there were consistant bred herds of cattle with the same phenotype cattle that I like and that I think will work in my herd. There are lots of herds that have a few cattle I like but few herds that have lots of cattle I like and very few to none that have all the type cattle I like. That is what I refer to when I say it takes a life time. I can build a set of numbers in a few generations but if I was using epd's to breed spots off of cattle how long would it take? I am not saying epds are completely worthless but in breeding a cattle with a certain visual phenotype they won't help. I find a certain type cattle work on my place , numbers or no numbers. They have to be deep, roomy, long spined , comfortable type cattle that are meaty with lots of width. What epd's will help me find them???? [/QUOTE]
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