The Rules

[alexfarms]

You left off the most important qualification: The need for an outside source of income or capital that makes economic performance of the enterprise irrelivant. This works until the money runs out and receivership invariably follows...

Does "reciprocal buying" happen to some degree in other breeds? I can't imagine it does to the extent it happens in Angus, but just curious.

I really respect some of the angus organizations that don't participate in that - Sinclair, Wehrmans, Gardiner, ohlde, etc regardless of genetic take on breed enhancement.

"Reciprocal buying", as you call it, has gone on as long as I can remember in Herefords and I am 51. The real killer is when they pull in some rich green horn who outbids the foney bidders. Buys up all these totally overpriced cattle. Has a production sale, thinking he will sell for similar prices at which he bought, and can barely get bids. A few years later he disperses in utter self defeat. You see this going on over and over and over again. Would breeds be better off if they kept some of those big money guys around?

 

[alexfarms]

I wonder if angus was white would everyone still like them or would they not like them because there white. :?: :?: :?:

I know it sounds weird coming from a guy named sim.-ang. king and raises black animals but i wonder if i would have white sim.- ang. cross. :?:

McD's would stop selling angus and would go back to hoilsteine. :lol:

If Angus were white, you would be raising white sim.-ang. And they would be better cattle than the black cattle of today simply because they are white. Black is the worst possible color for cattle. Do you remember the old children's fable about the Emperor being naked? It is a fable of arrogance and dillusion.

From Wikipedia:
"The Emperor's New Clothes" (Danish: Kejserens nye Klæder) is a short tale by Hans Christian Andersen about two weavers who promise an Emperor a new suit of clothes invisible to those unfit for their positions or incompetent. When the Emperor parades before his subjects in his new clothes, a child cries out, "But he isn't wearing anything at all!" The Emperor cringes, suspecting the assertion is true, but holds himself up proudly and continues the procession. The tale has been translated into over a hundred languages.[1]

 

[cattleman99]

I actually expect black cattle to get discounted in the near future. Why? Because only in North America has every breed tried to make them all one colour. No where else in the world do they do this. If the buyers decide to discount black cattle by .05 or more they will be able to get away with it for several years before guys can turn their heards back to traditional colours. The colour of the hide really has no relevance any where other than in North America auction barns. Kind of stupid if you ask me.

 

[ga.prime]

Faulty logic, 99. Prices are determined by competitive bidding. As long as there's strong demand for CAB, nothing is going to change.

 

[cattleman99]

Faulty logic, 99. Prices are determined by competitive bidding. As long as there's strong demand for CAB, nothing is going to change.

Wishfull thinking. It's just a matter of time. When someone tells the general public CAB is genetically defected there won't be any demand from Joe Public. Somewhere along the way they decided organic was better for them and the demand for organic picks up every year. My wife's best friend who is a city girl won't feed her kids anything that isn't organic because she's been brainwashed. What makes you think CAB is any different? All you need is some talk show host to bring up all the problems in the Angus breed and the demand for CAB is toast.

CAB has probably done some of the best marketing in North America in any type of business period over the past decade or so. But nobody stays on top forever. All you need to do is look to other industries to see the reality of it. You know anyone rushing out to buy a Toyota lately? Pizza Hut is another here in Manitoba where I live. during the 80's and 90's Pizza Hut ruled up here. Most of them have closed over the past year as Boston Pizza has put them out of business. It's the way business works.

 

[Jake]

Faulty logic, 99. Prices are determined by competitive bidding. As long as there's strong demand for CAB, nothing is going to change.

Wishfull thinking. It's just a matter of time. When someone tells the general public CAB is genetically defected there won't be any demand from Joe Public. Somewhere along the way they decided organic was better for them and the demand for organic picks up every year. My wife's best friend who is a city girl won't feed her kids anything that isn't organic because she's been brainwashed. What makes you think CAB is any different? All you need is some talk show host to bring up all the problems in the Angus breed and the demand for CAB is toast.

CAB has probably done some of the best marketing in North America in any type of business period over the past decade or so. But nobody stays on top forever. All you need to do is look to other industries to see the reality of it. You know anyone rushing out to buy a Toyota lately? Pizza Hut is another here in Manitoba where I live. during the 80's and 90's Pizza Hut ruled up here. Most of them have closed over the past year as Boston Pizza has put them out of business. It's the way business works.

If genetic defects are your logic for why Angus will no longer be desirable you have to be kidding... Start trying to advertise to the public that way and you will see a downward spiral of across breed bashing on all the defects that affect EVERY breed. Cattle are full of genetic defects, humans are full of genetic defects. Many desirable traits are defects... But when it comes to attack marketing there will be no winners.

Black cattle are here to stay in America. There is too high of a percentage of black cattle for them to be wiped out. Just because this board is full of angus haters doesn't mean it's the reality in the industry.

 

[vclavin]

Faulty logic, 99. Prices are determined by competitive bidding. As long as there's strong demand for CAB, nothing is going to change.

Wishfull thinking. It's just a matter of time. When someone tells the general public CAB is genetically defected there won't be any demand from Joe Public. Somewhere along the way they decided organic was better for them and the demand for organic picks up every year. My wife's best friend who is a city girl won't feed her kids anything that isn't organic because she's been brainwashed. What makes you think CAB is any different? All you need is some talk show host to bring up all the problems in the Angus breed and the demand for CAB is toast.

CAB has probably done some of the best marketing in North America in any type of business period over the past decade or so. But nobody stays on top forever. All you need to do is look to other industries to see the reality of it. You know anyone rushing out to buy a Toyota lately? Pizza Hut is another here in Manitoba where I live. during the 80's and 90's Pizza Hut ruled up here. Most of them have closed over the past year as Boston Pizza has put them out of business. It's the way business works.

I guess you missed the new line of meat CAB is selling.... "all natural" ...LOL
Valerie

 

[cattleman99]

I haven't missed a thing. Like I said Angus CAB has done a tremendous job of marketing. But I don't think it's going to last forever and i don't think Black hided cattle will be as popular as they are now in a few years. I'm not trying to bash Black Angus here. I'm just pointing out the obvious that some people can't see through their rose coloured glasses.

 

[Herefords.US]

When someone tells the general public CAB is genetically defected there won't be any demand from Joe Public.

Now, that sounds like a perfect scheme that could be used to persuade the "ignorant Joe Public" to just refrain from eating all beef, not just black hided ones! Be careful what you "wish" for! I don't know about the rest of you, but the current problem with eggs has sure caused me to adjust my diet.

And the Angus breed, while probably struggling the most at present, sure doesn't have a corner on the "genetic defect" market. Sooner or later, all breeds can expect a genetic mutation to occur that will impact the breed negatively.

As far as "The Rules" go, there's one that should be added:

You must have at least one heifer, who either has renowned parents and/or has done well on the tanbark, that you've flushed before she has proven that she can even have a calf naturally or raise it after it's born. And the more heifers you own that fit this criteria, the more "elite" you are!

George

 

[ga.prime]

Dam good post Herefords U.S.! Exactly right.

 

[cattleman99]

The rule about the flush cow is bang on. One of the most respected breeders I know who has recently retired (He's in his 70's now) wouldn't even consider flushing a cow until he had at least 3 top end calves out of her in 4 years. I think he was on to something there. Unlike the guys who buy $10 000 heifer calves and flush them immediately. I like looking back at production records 5 years after a sale. More often then not that high priced heifer only has a couple of calves registered off of her even though they have been selling embryo's off of her for the whole time and one of the so called bottom end calves to sell the same day for not a lot of money has produced year after year and made the buyer money.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

If they stop buying black hide animals than here where i live 90% of the market will go down the drain.
And the remark of me raiseing non-black sim-ang has already happen but while the markets good i'll stick to the blackies

The best thing of being cross-bred breeder is you are not held down by rules and regulations.

If someone ask me my favorite color i would say if it don't look like hereford I like it. :lol:

 

[vclavin]

I haven't missed a thing. Like I said Angus CAB has done a tremendous job of marketing. But I don't think it's going to last forever and i don't think Black hided cattle will be as popular as they are now in a few years. I'm not trying to bash Black Angus here. I'm just pointing out the obvious that some people can't see through their rose coloured glasses.

As long as the "other" breeds keep after the huge RE and growth and "forget" marbling, then Angus will continue to rule. But, if the Angus Breeders go after the same RE and high growth while forgetting the Marbling then you may get your wish.
Valerie

 

[alexfarms]

If someone ask me my favorite color i would say if it don't look like hereford I like it. :lol:

Would that be red Herefords or black Herefords?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Anything like a herford