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<blockquote data-quote="Jeanne - Simme Valley" data-source="post: 831205" data-attributes="member: 968"><p>Jeanne, it seems you are conversing with someone else. <span style="color: #00BFFF">??? I think you need to re-read my post</span>.</p><p></p><p>I was talking about maternal function, and a systematic selection process that accounts for the reality of typically being in a position of having to compromise on one thing or another because few bulls do everything perfectly.</p><p></p><p>The question was regarding the sire selection process question in light of maternal reproductive functional requirements, not a questioning of carcass traits, cow size, color, phenotype, fleshing ability, culling, uniformity of my herd, or your herd. As we well know personal preferences as to all those traits are best left to the discretion of the owner.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00BFFF">Let's see, you wrote in your original question:</span></p><p>Less then average mature height.</p><p>Less than average mature weight</p><p>So the question becomes what are you willing to compromise and what system in terms of accessing degree of specific trait improvement required vs degree of specific trait compromise you can risk, are you going to employ?</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00BFFF">So, you indicated you are considering HEIGHT & WEIGHT as part of your selection process. Uniformity of a cow herd is EXTREMELY important (more so if you are using a natural service bull). If you don't strive for a uniform herd, how do you pick a bull? And COLOR is a convenience trait that can make you more money – just like Polled.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00BFFF">NO BULL has 100% of all the traits needed for a whole herd. In my case, I have the luxury of picking a bull for ONE cow (it's called artificial insemination). </span></p><p>"<u><strong>Please clarify this statement </strong></u>" but as far as priority, that is down on the list, although it, too, is extremely important.". You used the word priority and to me a from a maternal functional standpoint a selection priorizing relative to functional trait importance must be done. If you are raising maternal seedstock and your priorities fail to acknowledge fertility then it may not be long until the maternal value of your cattle is compromised. Maternal cattle with compromised fertility is a bit of a non sequitur.</p><p><span style="color: #00BFFF">Let's get the whole comment: "I cull heavily on structure, reproduction (<u><strong>fertility</strong></u>), & temperament. I <u><strong>also</strong></u> cull on performance, but as far as priority, that is down on the list, although it, too, is extremely important. It's just rare that one of my heifers produces a dud." (PERFORMANCE IS DOWN ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES)</span></p><p><span style="color: #00BFFF">"Performance" in my translation, is POUNDS produced – NOT fertility. I already stated that fertility was high on my priority list and I ALSO stated my cows are fertile myrtles (kinda like meaning they are FERTILE).</span></p><p><span style="color: #00BFFF">Why do you have to compromise on your bull selection? With the use of EPD's (tools – not God's gift to the beef industry), breeders have lowered BW, raised WW, stabilized Milk and most all other traits. You don't KNOW if a bull is high in fertility – or that he has the ability to pass it on. You have to rely on your cows records on fertility and cull hard against poor breeders. There are bulls out there that "should" have well balanced traits (for a balanced herd of cows) – or excel in the traits your cows are lacking.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00BFFF">I think I stated quite eloquently that no animal is PERFECT. You get a group of cows & you pick a bull with the MOST traits that COMPLIMENT your cows. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00BFFF">I am not willing to sacrifice any maternal traits, are you? </span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jeanne - Simme Valley, post: 831205, member: 968"] Jeanne, it seems you are conversing with someone else. [color=#00BFFF]??? I think you need to re-read my post[/color]. I was talking about maternal function, and a systematic selection process that accounts for the reality of typically being in a position of having to compromise on one thing or another because few bulls do everything perfectly. The question was regarding the sire selection process question in light of maternal reproductive functional requirements, not a questioning of carcass traits, cow size, color, phenotype, fleshing ability, culling, uniformity of my herd, or your herd. As we well know personal preferences as to all those traits are best left to the discretion of the owner. [color=#00BFFF]Let’s see, you wrote in your original question:[/color] Less then average mature height. Less than average mature weight So the question becomes what are you willing to compromise and what system in terms of accessing degree of specific trait improvement required vs degree of specific trait compromise you can risk, are you going to employ? [color=#00BFFF]So, you indicated you are considering HEIGHT & WEIGHT as part of your selection process. Uniformity of a cow herd is EXTREMELY important (more so if you are using a natural service bull). If you don’t strive for a uniform herd, how do you pick a bull? And COLOR is a convenience trait that can make you more money – just like Polled. NO BULL has 100% of all the traits needed for a whole herd. In my case, I have the luxury of picking a bull for ONE cow (it’s called artificial insemination). [/color] "[u][b]Please clarify this statement [/b][/u]" but as far as priority, that is down on the list, although it, too, is extremely important.". You used the word priority and to me a from a maternal functional standpoint a selection priorizing relative to functional trait importance must be done. If you are raising maternal seedstock and your priorities fail to acknowledge fertility then it may not be long until the maternal value of your cattle is compromised. Maternal cattle with compromised fertility is a bit of a non sequitur. [color=#00BFFF]Let’s get the whole comment: “I cull heavily on structure, reproduction ([u][b]fertility[/b][/u]), & temperament. I [u][b]also[/b][/u] cull on performance, but as far as priority, that is down on the list, although it, too, is extremely important. It's just rare that one of my heifers produces a dud.” (PERFORMANCE IS DOWN ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES) “Performance” in my translation, is POUNDS produced – NOT fertility. I already stated that fertility was high on my priority list and I ALSO stated my cows are fertile myrtles (kinda like meaning they are FERTILE). Why do you have to compromise on your bull selection? With the use of EPD’s (tools – not God’s gift to the beef industry), breeders have lowered BW, raised WW, stabilized Milk and most all other traits. You don’t KNOW if a bull is high in fertility – or that he has the ability to pass it on. You have to rely on your cows records on fertility and cull hard against poor breeders. There are bulls out there that “should” have well balanced traits (for a balanced herd of cows) – or excel in the traits your cows are lacking. I think I stated quite eloquently that no animal is PERFECT. You get a group of cows & you pick a bull with the MOST traits that COMPLIMENT your cows. I am not willing to sacrifice any maternal traits, are you? [/color] [/QUOTE]
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