Tehama Bando 155, Sitz Traveler 8180

[redcowsrule33]

Any comments about these two? I have a cow with both in her background but am not familiar with them.

 

[Oldtimer]

Any comments about these two? I have a cow with both in her background but am not familiar with them.

Both bulls show up in the pedigrees of some of the better maternal cattle...
The pictures I've seen of 155- he looks like a Jersey bull more than angus...

http://www.universalsemensales.com/deta ... gus_id=179

8180's mgs- G D A R Rainmaker 340- is imho one of the top maternal sires of the angus breed in the past 30 years... We just bought a maternal granddaughter that will have her first calf this spring- that goes back several times to the Juanada cow line---16453125... Nice looking heifer- Time will tell how that combination works out..

 

[3waycross]

There are some pretty fantstic looking Angus AI sires out there today. I even have a few in my tank. But I can say without a doubt I wouldn't breed that 155 bull to a bowlegged goat, it would probably devalue the darned goat.

 

[Flacowman]

Why is anyone even still trying to sell semen? I may have missed one but I didn't see a single epd besides bw that was up to today's breed average

 

[Katpau]

Tehema Bando 155 was born in 1980. He is well known for producing excellent daughters. He is the maternal grand sire of such well known bulls as Leachman Right Time, Wulffs EXT 6106, Bonview Emulation EXT 473, Larks Canyon, and others.

Sitz Traveler 8180 was born in 1990. He is the sire of numerous popular bulls. Examples include Sitz Alliance 6595, SAV 8180 Traveler 004, and SAV Final Answer.

 

[redcowsrule33]

Thanks for the replies, maternal is what I'm going for. I've known of the bulls, but just their EPDs. This kind of info you can't Google. Thanks!

 

[Oldtimer]

Thanks for the replies, maternal is what I'm going for. I've known of the bulls, but just their EPDs. This kind of info you can't Google. Thanks!

You might want to check this thread out on the advantage cattle website:

http://www.advantagecattle.com/forum/to ... IC_ID=5618

Some comments by folks that have used 155- and their observations....

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I understand the eagerness and predilection of breeders attempting to perhaps utilize the genetics of bulls who helped establish "Genetic improvements over those which were current and available 30 years or so ago, and which were superior to the average genetics at that time. BUT, with a third to a half a century of breeding improvements in Phenotype, Growth traits, Maternal traits, Carcass traits, Functional traits, and all of the genetic developments which have so laborously been improved upon by literally thousands of breeders, Universities, Associations, and dedicated investigators, WHY would one wish to lurch BACKWARDS in their breeding program, when there are so many more desirable and improved seedstock individuals RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR NOSE. You mentioned that you were searching for Maternal traits. I would venture to say that there is not one bull available for breeding purposes today on AI lists, or even in the higher quality sales this fall, that is not more desirable OVERALL and with ALL traits taken into consideration that would not be more appropriate for your purposes!

Tehama Bando 155 has Milk EPD of 20, which is okay in my opinion for most matings, but his other Growth numbers are abominable, and his RE is -0.2. His WW is 27 and his Scrotal EPD is -0.82. This reflects on the Maternal reproductive characteristics of his daughters! You are headed downhill fast, and it will take you YEARS to overcome those problems if you keep replacements. I would advise you to think again!

Justs because it is an idea doesn't mean it is an acceptable one!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I understand the eagerness and predilection of breeders attempting to perhaps utilize the genetics of bulls who helped establish "Genetic improvements over those which were current and available 30 years or so ago, and which were superior to the average genetics at that time. BUT, with a third to a half a century of breeding improvements in Phenotype, Growth traits, Maternal traits, Carcass traits, Functional traits, and all of the genetic developments which have so laborously been improved upon by literally thousands of breeders, Universities, Associations, and dedicated investigators, WHY would one wish to lurch BACKWARDS in their breeding program, when there are so many more desirable and improved seedstock individuals RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR NOSE. You mentioned that you were searching for Maternal traits. I would venture to say that there is not one bull available for breeding purposes today on AI lists, or even in the higher quality sales this fall, that is not more desirable OVERALL and with ALL traits taken into consideration that would not be more appropriate for your purposes!

Tehama Bando 155 has Milk EPD of 20, which is okay in my opinion for most matings, but his other Growth numbers are abominable, and his RE is -0.2. His WW is 27 and his Scrotal EPD is -0.82. This reflects on the Maternal reproductive characteristics of his daughters! You are headed downhill fast, and it will take you YEARS to overcome those problems if you keep replacements. I would advise you to think again!

Justs because it is an idea doesn't mean it is an acceptable one!

DOC HARRIS

Doc, I may not comprehend the English language but the question and comment regarding these two bulls at the beginning of this thread stated nowhere an interest or intent to use either of these bulls artificially. Maybe you know something I don't but I didn't read any comment about an "idea" either.

Are you suggesting he shouldn't breed the cow because these two bulls are in her background?

I assume from your comments that you perceive no value in aged proven bulls.

Whats is the age cut off in your opinion?

Who exactly are the "dedicated investigators " to whom you refer?

The next time I have an "idea" I will be sure to run it by you first to make sure it is acceptable! :roll:

 

[robert]

sometimes, to go forwards, a step back is required.

To be specific about the two bulls inquired about, I avoided 155 for many years after having seen him in the flesh (what there was of it) and wondering whether I'd been shown an Angus or a black Jersey by mistake, he has become for me an acceptable individual in a pedigree, mainly through his daughters. For the most part I've avoided sons, and those paternal grandsons I've used have in general been disappointing.

Traveler 8180 is an odd breeding bull, most all the calves I saw out of him directly, male and female, were frail, lacking in substance and bone, narrow made cattle, and yet he seems to have outbred himself through his sons 004 and Final Answer, which can give you some throwbacks to the type already outlined, for the most past produce more muscle, bone and sunstance than their sire and pat. grandsire T-71 ever did. Fertility was an issue with the 004's for us, and have mostly stayed away from Final Answer.

To sum up, I don't tend to discriminate against either 155 or 8180 anymore, but I don't actively look to have them in a pedigree either.

 

[vclavin]

sometimes, to go forwards, a step back is required.

To be specific about the two bulls inquired about, I avoided 155 for many years after having seen him in the flesh (what there was of it) and wondering whether I'd been shown an Angus or a black Jersey by mistake, he has become for me an acceptable individual in a pedigree, mainly through his daughters. For the most part I've avoided sons, and those paternal grandsons I've used have in general been disappointing.

Traveler 8180 is an odd breeding bull, most all the calves I saw out of him directly, male and female, were frail, lacking in substance and bone, narrow made cattle, and yet he seems to have outbred himself through his sons 004 and Final Answer, which can give you some throwbacks to the type already outlined, for the most past produce more muscle, bone and sunstance than their sire and pat. grandsire T-71 ever did. Fertility was an issue with the 004's for us, and have mostly stayed away from Final Answer.

To sum up, I don't tend to discriminate against either 155 or 8180 anymore, but I don't actively look to have them in a pedigree either.

Bought an 004 heifer several years ago. A little too high birth but whe was a beauty and EPD's I could work with. We sold her at a little over 2 the same way we bought her -open. The breeder did refuld all our money and gave us a $200 credit on any female we should buy later.
Valerie

 

[redcowsrule33]

For the record, both bulls are at least 3-4 generations back. I agree with the phenotypical assessment of 155. However, one could argue that Meyer 734 (Simmi) isn't exactly a showstopper but that hasn't decreased the demand for his semen or progeny. Not that I'd want one; the reality those cattle come from vs. my own are not compatible in my opinion.

Also, I have seen the sire, dam, and maternal granddam of this individual and they were outstanding. This particular cow has also produced a nice heifer as her first try and has bred right back under conditions far harsher than those she will experience at my place. So I wouldn't hold those bulls in her pedigree against her, just wondering what their strengths and weaknesses were from those who have been in it long enough to know.

 

[mrvictordomino]

I don't know about the older Angus genetics, however if you look up old Hereford
bulls that have not had any progeny recorded for 15-20 years, most of their EPD numbers
are terrible. I do know of a bull that was born in 1972 that has been used recently with
several calves reported and his numbers are more mainstream, not as high in growth as
some of todays bulls, but where I would have expected them to be. I guess my question
would be, is there calves by these two bulls that have been recorded recently where
the calf performance reflects their EPD's?

DM

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Here is a bull with 8180 and 155 up close.

http://www.universalsemensales.com/detail_angus.php?angus_id=97