Strange Questions

[KANSAS]

Ok folks... bear with me.. I had my wisdom teeth taken out and my questions may be drug induced.

-Pertaining to hogs, it is widely accepted that the breed "Gloucestershire Old Spot" aka Orchard Pig is the best tasting pork around. They are not raised commercially necessarily due to their need to roam and the fact that they are slow growing.
-I believe that in the chicken industry commercially speaking there is one breed widely used (dont know the name) where-as in the organic section there are a couple of different breeds that seem to excell in taste over all others.
-(Excluding Wagyu) is there a breed of cattle that is supposed to taste better than the others? I know people say brahma are no good, longhorns too lean, such and such too fat. Is there a breed though (could be heirloom) that is considered an absolute delicacy?

-Also, when people say that wagyu is so delicious if other breeds of cattle were raised the same way would they taste as good. It is my understanding that many of the Wagyu producers raise one and sometimes only two animals at a time. The animal is massaged, fed it beer, and who knows what else. If the same amount of care was given to say a hereford would the same or similiar thing occur as it does in the Wagyu?

Thanks, and sorry if it makes no sense atleast I have a drug induced excuse..

 

[Aero]

-Also, when people say that wagyu is so delicious if other breeds of cattle were raised the same way would they taste as good. It is my understanding that many of the Wagyu producers raise one and sometimes only two animals at a time. The animal is massaged, fed it beer, and who knows what else. If the same amount of care was given to say a hereford would the same or similiar thing occur as it does in the Wagyu?

nope, you cant change the genetic potential to marble with environment. most cattle have an upper threshold for marbling and once the limit has been reached, they convert almost all excess energy to waste fat (external, seam & KPH). Wagyu have been bred for hundreds of years to have the highest marbling threshold.

do you think some average hereford is going to make this with a little beer and a masseuse?

 

[KANSAS]

No I actually dont. But what changes would occur with some beer and a massuese? Actually, I suppose I should ask, just how much does care during the animals entire life effect the outcome of the carcass?

 

[KNERSIE]

how an animal is fed out and how quickly its finished does play a big role especially when it comes to tenderness. But a brahman will never be a wagyu when it comes to marbling.

all things equal I don't think many people will be able to distinguish between beef from british types and be able to tell which is angus, herefords etc.

You should be able to tell which is british and which is continental.

It would make an interesting experiment to feed beef steers of different types (british, continental and indicus) out exactly the same and see the resulting beef. I think there is going to be very little difference, and more a case of certain animals being raised in a certain environment because they are better adapted to harsher conditions and therefore have to endure more hardships in the process of growing up. This environmental factors will definately play a role in the eventual outcome of the beef.

In SA Woolworths (a posh department store) only sell hereford, angus sussex and bonsmara beef and won't accept anything with any dairy or brahman influence at all, doesn't matter how little

 

[KANSAS]

Have there been experiments pertaining to how they are finished in a feedlot/vs loads and loads of fabulous feed and TLC? If so, is there a huge diffence?

Another question: I hear people say that the herefords, or angus, even brahma, jersey and longhorn cattle they feed out are the best they ever tasted. Or atleast as good as anything you can buy. How much of this is a biased opinion? However, there must be some serious merit in how the animal is fed out. Just what do you folks feed and how do you do it (cost not an issue) to make your beef the tastiest it can be?

 

[Schnurrbart]

No I actually dont. But what changes would occur with some beer and a massuese? Actually, I suppose I should ask, just how much does care during the animals entire life effect the outcome of the carcass?

Actually they only get beer and massages during the 3 hottest months of the year when their appetite falls off. They get a bottle per day until their appetite picks up and then no beer! Also they get about a 20 minute massage during this time also. Their DRG is much lower than our cattle so the quality is at a much higher cost.

 

[Chris H]

Herefords were the breed of choice in some taste test of chefs. I'll try to find the test.

 

[Shorthornguy]

For taste a Jersey is hard to beat. When we were in dairy we raised all our bull calves because they were not worth anything at the sale barn.
:lol: No way am I going to give my cattle MY beer :lol:

 

[mgman]

:lol: No way am I going to give my cattle MY beer :lol:[/quote]

Spoken like a true Wisconsinite there shorthornguy!! I'm with you...there is no way my cattle are getting any of my beer!! :lol:

 

[MikeC]

No I actually dont. But what changes would occur with some beer and a massuese? Actually, I suppose I should ask, just how much does care during the animals entire life effect the outcome of the carcass?

I think the beer is just to increase the appetite.

 

[El_Putzo]

I could go for a beer and a good looking masseuse right now!! :lol: :lol:

Oh dang, we're talking about cattle, arent we.

On a similar note, what brand of beer do you think would be the favorite of most cattle??

Also, my father-in-law has an Austrailian shepherd pup that is about 4 months old and I think he is becoming an alcholic. He'll drink beer or straight whiskey. It don't take much to get him weaving though. Where can I get him some help? Do they have doggie AA meetings? :lol: :lol:

 

[warpaint]

I could go for a beer and a good looking masseuse right now!! :lol: :lol:

Oh dang, we're talking about cattle, arent we.

On a similar note, what brand of beer do you think would be the favorite of most cattle??

Also, my father-in-law has an Austrailian shepherd pup that is about 4 months old and I think he is becoming an alcholic. He'll drink beer or straight whiskey. It don't take much to get him weaving though. Where can I get him some help? Do they have doggie AA meetings? :lol: :lol:

Had a horse once, that could drink me under the table.

 

[boone]

kansas, I think you will find some info about rare breeds on the website for the American Breeds Conservacy??? Be informed that I think this is a group of left wing do gooders, but they do have some interesting stuff on the sight. Not positive about the name, you may have to do a search. Boone

 

[Dad at the Ranch]

Kansas, I really don't read this Q&A much but today I go in and because of your name I read your question. We raise " Wagyu" cattle and sorry to break some ones bubble, but I drink my beer with my wagyu steak. Now I am not to say that someone somewhere might do it (feed beer) but we have not found the need to try.Plus we feed out more than one or two in a commercial feedyard. Marbling and tenderness is in the genetics. By the way AERO, great picture. Wagyu is the only breed which I am aware of that disperses the marbling in the red meat, just like AERO's picture, and that's pretty extreme. Now, everyone else I am not wanting debate or make some one upset but the facts or the facts. Plus Kansas most people think they want there meat leaner and Wagyu beef sure ain't for them. Have a wonderful CHRISTMAS everyone!! ;-)

 

[purecountry]

I know some Cert. Organic producers who have been trying to find Old Gloucestershire Spotted breeding stock for 2 years, because they can't supply enough pastured pork to meet the demand. So there must be somethng to it.

As for beef, I've never tasted Wagyu, but have heard it's unlike anything else in the industry. But, I also said the same thing the first time I had Galloway beef. Not that it marbles like the steaks in that pic, but it's far and away the best beef I've ever had.

 

[Bullbuyer]

A few companies are marketing Berkshire pork as being very tasty. I think one of the biggest variables (that I believe is often overlooked) is individual taste. I personally would starve if you made me eat venison (no matter who cooked it or how it was cooked) but beef and pork - that's a whole different story.

 

[ENNOT]

My question about Wagyu beef compared to other breeds is if a group of, let's just say Angus, steers that were the top of the line genetics for carcass traits and bred strictly for carcass traits, like Wagyu's, and fed for at least three years, like a Wagyu, would they marble similarily and taste as good? Has this ever been studied?

In my mind, Wagyu's are one trait cattle. I dealt with them in college at Washington State University and they couldn't raise a starving mouse as far as maternal milk goes. We did have some Wagyu crosses that weren't too bad. They blended well with Angus cattle and commercial Angus crossbreds.

I am not trying to bash the Wagyu too much, they have their place in the meat retail market.

 

[andybob]

Tamworth are another popular free range pig, there is plenty of research to show both genetics and feed type dictate quality and taste. Ennot, Dad at the ranch will be better qualified to answer this question, but it seems that when high marbleing breeds are crossed to Wagyu they need to be 3/4 Wagyu to attain the degree of marbleing we see in these examples, possibly 'Dad' can give a more qualified opinion?

 

[MikeC]

MANHATTAN, Kan. — The search for superior beef may have found a solution.

John Brethour, K-State Research and Extension animal scientist, may have discovered a way to produce carcasses of consistent superior quality. Brethour tests ultrasound application in tracking marbling at the K-State Western Kansas Agricultural Research Center in Hays.

"I wanted to apply ultrasound to calculate how many days it will take an animal to go to the next grade," Brethour said. "We are attempting to determine objectively how many days to feed the animal in order to receive the highest price."

Brethour has dedicated nearly 12 years to studying ultrasound. The early experiments attempted to establish equations for measuring backfat in live animals. Once he established different backfat equations for different breeds, he wanted to see if marbling works the same way.

"We have studied ultrasound over the years to tract the development of marbling, since marbling is supposedly the best indication of eating ability," Brethour said. "I wanted to see if the equations for native cattle would hold true for Wagyu cattle or if marbling would differ."

Jim Scott, owner of PrimeLine Genetics, asked Brethour for assistance with his own quest for high quality beef. Scott experimented with Wagyu crosses but needed a better way to select the harvest date.

"We needed to look inside at the carcass while the animals were still alive," Scott said. "K-State and John Brethour gave us the best offer."

In their experiment, Brethour and Scott bred 135 commercial Charolais heifers to six Wagyu purebred bulls from OBBCO Ranch in DeLeon, Texas. From that group, 25 steers were randomly selected to be included in the study, performed at the Agricultural Research Center—Hays.

The results? The cattle graded more than 90 percent prime, in comparison to the national slaughter mix average of less than two percent prime. In addition, the men took six cattle to the 1999 National Western Stock Show (NWSS) for the carcass contest, where they won first place with an unprecedented 100-percent, prime-graded group.

"One judge said this was ‘the best set of carcasses I’ve ever seen in my life,’" Brethour said. "We broke history in Denver with an average quality grade of Prime plus."


"The best set of carcasses I’ve ever seen in my life"

Wagyu cattle have been used in the United States before, but they have been bred to cattle known for high marbling. Scott said they thought to bred them to Charolais because Wagyu cattle "have the marbling but needed the growth and efficiency provided by Charolais."

Producers can expect similar results with Wagyu-Charolais crosses, Scott said. In addition to carcass quality, Wagyu cattle also are known for their calving ease due to small-boned, lighter calves. The disadvantage of the breed reverts back to the 60-pound average birth weight.

"When you start with an animal that small, you don’t have as good a growth pattern pre-weaning," Scott said. "However, as you go through post-weaning, hybrid vigor kicks in and you end up with animals just as large."

The hybrid vigor in Wagyu crosses is higher due to the new genetics from the Japanese-based breed.

"Wagyu cattle are not related to anything in America, which results in a huge heterosis effect," Scott said.

Will this cross affect the beef industry? Scott says no, not until producers can focus on the end product instead of the cattle’s appearance.

"Wagyu cattle are ugly. They are fine-boned, small ended and ugly," Scott said. "Breeds of cattle are still being judged with the eyeball, even though we have EPD’s and are using data. Not many cattle producers know what the end product should look like, yet." While Wagyu cattle are not widely accepted by the beef industry, the use of ultrasound to determine the harvest date is increasing in popularity in the industry. Brethour is attempting to polish the technology for practical application.

"Our interest in ultrasound is for upstream commercial operations," Brethour said. "Today we are working with different ultrasound machines to resolve the variation among the machines."

Brethour continues to discover new applications for ultrasound.

"We are currently studying the accuracy of evaluating calves at weaning to predict their potential grade. It’s interesting how accurate we can be by evaluating the calves," he said. "We also plan to ultrasound cows to predict the genetic potential of calves she will raise."

Linda Albers
Communications Specialist
K-State Research and Extension John Brethour
Agricultural Research Center-Hays
785-625-3425 Ext. 215

 

[Schnurrbart]

Herefords were the breed of choice in some taste test of chefs. I'll try to find the test.

I have read the test results from a test at a midwestern University a few years ago which was never published and was commissioned by the big black breed assoc. comparing their breed in a taste and tenderness test to Tarentaise steers. The results were not to their liking hence the non-published data but the owner of the Tarentaise steers got the results since he supplied those cattle. Overwhelming in favor of the Tarentaise.