strange heifer incident?

[cattle60]

Tall Timber , Was this one of the show me select heifers? Sorry for your problems, Know the feelings. What vets do you have to use? Mine came out of Farmington.

 

[Lucky_P]

tt,
I wouldn't necessarily have put her down.
I've seen cows/heifers standing there peacefully chewing their cuds as if nothing were amiss, while you rake rotten, decomposed calves out, in chunks, by the handful. Granted, it's not desirable, and not all will be in that good condition, but I wouldn't shoot 'em just because there was a dead calf - or part of one - left in there.

I can't comment specifically on your (or anyone else's) difficulty getting a large animal veterinarian out...but having been one, I have some thoughts on the matter.

 

[greatgerts]

Tall Timber , Was this one of the show me select heifers? Sorry for your problems, Know the feelings. What vets do you have to use? Mine came out of Farmington.

My vet is out of Farmington/Fredericktown. Works at both clinics. They have enough vets on staff that even when you call the after hours number, you'll normally get a call within 30 minutes, unless they are on another emergency call.
Very good to work with, and reasonable on prices.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

One of the worst accounts I had of a bad birth was when I was younger and worked for a research company. The study we were on was a big dairy study; Upjohn was trying to beat everyone and get rBST in the market first. We had 270 dairy cows that were in the study, that we were going to follow through 5 lactation cycles using the rBST.
Anyway, we had a cow that failed to progress at calving, so we called the vet. I was the assistant, and the vet made the call that the calf was dead (flexion test), so we were going to do a fetotomy instead of a c-section. My job was to hold the chains tight, keeping tension on the calf while he ran the blade over the shoulder blade to remove the shoulder, thus allowing the calf to fit through the pelvis. As he started sawing, I felt the calf jerk! I told the vet the calf was alive, and moving. The vet assured me the calf was dead, and the jerking was from him cutting through the tendon and muscles. My gut told me otherwise, but I was not a vet so I did as I was told. Once the leg was severed, we pulled out the leg/shoulder, then pulled the rest of the calf with a few tugs. Imagine our surprise when the calf shook it's head, and attempted to try to stand on THREE legs!!!!!! The vet ran back to his truck, got some of the pink stuff (beuthanasia), and immediately put the calf down. He was sick to his stomach, very apologetic, and just broke over the incident. I have never forgotten that, and when I check a calving cow and do not get a response from the calf, still do not give up until the calf is out and I am sure it is dead!

 

[talltimber]

Tall Timber , Was this one of the show me select heifers? Sorry for your problems, Know the feelings. What vets do you have to use? Mine came out of Farmington.

Yes, a SMS heifer. I won't name names, but it includes some of the vets in my area down here.

tt,
I wouldn't necessarily have put her down.
I've seen cows/heifers standing there peacefully chewing their cuds as if nothing were amiss, while you rake rotten, decomposed calves out, in chunks, by the handful. Granted, it's not desirable, and not all will be in that good condition, but I wouldn't shoot 'em just because there was a dead calf - or part of one - left in there.

I can't comment specifically on your (or anyone else's) difficulty getting a large animal veterinarian out...but having been one, I have some thoughts on the matter.

The good Doctor said she wouldn't last three days. I took him at his word and education level, and she wasn't doing well at all Sunday. I'm not going to second guess myself now. I'm sure miracles happen but I wasn't going to guinea pig her at that point. Others' mileage may vary, and usually do.

One of the worst accounts I had of a bad birth was when I was younger and worked for a research company. The study we were on was a big dairy study; Upjohn was trying to beat everyone and get rBST in the market first. We had 270 dairy cows that were in the study, that we were going to follow through 5 lactation cycles using the rBST.
Anyway, we had a cow that failed to progress at calving, so we called the vet. I was the assistant, and the vet made the call that the calf was dead (flexion test), so we were going to do a fetotomy instead of a c-section. My job was to hold the chains tight, keeping tension on the calf while he ran the blade over the shoulder blade to remove the shoulder, thus allowing the calf to fit through the pelvis. As he started sawing, I felt the calf jerk! I told the vet the calf was alive, and moving. The vet assured me the calf was dead, and the jerking was from him cutting through the tendon and muscles. My gut told me otherwise, but I was not a vet so I did as I was told. Once the leg was severed, we pulled out the leg/shoulder, then pulled the rest of the calf with a few tugs. Imagine our surprise when the calf shook it's head, and attempted to try to stand on THREE legs!!!!!! The vet ran back to his truck, got some of the pink stuff (beuthanasia), and immediately put the calf down. He was sick to his stomach, very apologetic, and just broke over the incident. I have never forgotten that, and when I check a calving cow and do not get a response from the calf, still do not give up until the calf is out and I am sure it is dead!

That is terrible. Did he quit practice altogether?

 

[talltimber]

Tall Timber , Was this one of the show me select heifers? Sorry for your problems, Know the feelings. What vets do you have to use? Mine came out of Farmington.

After saying it didn't look all that small, I should say that it wasn't a monster either. A head and leg back was the problem, not an SMS failure as far as I know. Doc said he should have had enough room. SMS can only measure the pelvic,require shots, and the use of a low (approved) birth weight bull. He was fully haired calf and seemed normal, well, other than being dead and in pieces.


What could have been so tough about the pull with only the pelvis and legs left in there to pull out? That's another one of the things about this deal I can't understand. I can see that if the neck stub that is left on the rib cage/body was long and hanging on the way out. But the rib cage was out, according to Doc, and only was left loin and rearward.

 

[talltimber]

Tall Timber , Was this one of the show me select heifers? Sorry for your problems, Know the feelings. What vets do you have to use? Mine came out of Farmington.

My vet is out of Farmington/Fredericktown. Works at both clinics. They have enough vets on staff that even when you call the after hours number, you'll normally get a call within 30 minutes, unless they are on another emergency call.
Very good to work with, and reasonable on prices.

You are fortunate

 

[RiverHills]

Hate to hear that TT. Those are some nice heifers you bought, makes it even worse. But things do go wrong with animals even if you do everthing right.

Our vet is out of Jackson. We have had good luck with him. We do give him a lot of business from buying our meds for the cattle to taking our dog there. We might pay more for our meds but I think it helps on those calls if they know your not calling them just for an emergency.

 

[talltimber]

thank you, I am proud of them, and hope the rest have better luck.

I used to think you are right. I buy meds, fly tags, send the dog, pay bills as quick as they can get them figured, have worked on the facilites to make it easier and safer. It don't make a bit of difference. The only thing I can think of is that I'm not big enough, and there won't be any changing that anytime soon. Maybe ever.
Do you have them work your cattle every time as well? Vaccs, castrate, etc and how many head are we talking about, if that's not too personal?

I don't want this to turn to a vet bashing thread. I have had good luck with vets, particularly with dogs and horses. Granted, none of those were after hours.

 

[Nesikep]

That sucks.. been there as well.. This year I had my first C section on a heifer, we're about 2 hours away from the nearest vet, and he was an hour away from his office when I called.. Heifer did fine, but lost the calf with the 4 hour wait... I know I did everything I could, and made all the right calls.. after she worked for a bit and I saw the front legs with no progress, I put chains on and pulled a bit, but saw quickly the calf wasn't going to fit (110 lb calf an 900 lb heifer doesn't go together well), and made the call to the vet... $1000 later I had a dead calf and a tired, but healthy cow who went on to be a surrogate mother to a calf.. Figure I might as well have her do something for me while she heals.. Oh, and she bred back on the first cycle!

 

[RiverHills]

TT we only have a little a hundred cows so nothing big. He preg checks some cows but we do all we can. We just try to stay good with our vet but I think most of it is that vets just don't want to work on cows.