splitting hay with baler

[spoon]

A feller came by today to discuss cutting my hay. We used to always go 50/50 on the hay with me doing the fertilizing and him doing all the cutting,raking, and baling. Fertilizer and diesel have both gone crazy. So is that still a fair option? Option number 2 is for him to bale it and me not do any fertilizing this year. The grass is really coming good with all the rain we have had this spring so I am thinking about not fertilizing at all. He is will to go that route for 2/3 of the hay. I get 1/3. He is also still willing to go 50/50 if I fertilize. Opinions/thoughts welcome.

 

[spoon]

I'll feed it if everything goes right and I get some cows before winter. Otherwise I'll sell my part. I know fertilizer is the right way to go but with the cost so high and me not having any cows as of yet I'm trying to save a few $$$. I'm looking at prolly $3,000 for fertilizer. Never get that back out of hay just by selling it so if I don't get any cows by winter it will be pretty much a waste for me as I see it.

 

[spoon]

I was figuring 2.5 rolls per acre. He rolls a 5x5 roll. Half would be around 75 rolls.

 

[Jogeephus]

I think if you just take the hay off of the land and not fertilize you will be hurting yourself in the long run. I don't know what type grass you got but I know this would be the case with bermuda. Personally, I would rather let him have 75-80% of the hay on the condition he fertilizes it according to the soil test recommendations rather than just stripping the nutrients from the site or not cutting any at all. In the long run I think you would be much better off doing this. JMHO

 

[bigbull338]

spending $3000 on fert might get you 4 tons.an that would only fert 40acs.at a cost of $75 an ac.when that same $3000 would buy 100 rolls at $30 a bale.i wouldnt fert.an id give your baler man 2 an id take the 1.that way your $3000 ahead.an if you need to you have money for hay.an this fall id seed your hay field heavy in rye grass an clover.that puts nitrogen in the ground.this giving you grazing an a cutting of hay.

 

[novatech]

that puts nitrogen in the ground.this giving you grazing an a cutting of hay.

If you graze it the N will go back into the ground in the form of manure. If you bale it the N, along with any other nutrients will go out with the hay. Most people have the misconception that the clover puts N into the soil via the roots. Very little N is transferred this way, most is through the vegetation. Rye grass does not produce N.

If you don't have any cattle you may want to make a deal with the baler to just buy it all. This way you are guaranteed a net profit.
I would not let anyone bale without fertilizing. It just robs the soil of nutrients if you don't, causing more fert to be added the next year.

 

[grannysoo]

It's tough this year. I still have plenty of hay left for next year, so my plans are not to bale anything. The girls are going to get plenty of grass this summer!

 

[spoon]

The pasture is mainly fescue, orchard grass, and red clover with some other stuff that has seeded on it's on thru the years. He would prolly buy it all but then I might have to end up buying some. I'm hoping to buy some cows in a couple of months.I was reading an article where the author recommened not fertilizing this year IF your ground had a good phosperous and potassium rating on your soil test. You could probably skip fertilizing this year and hope for lower prices next year. Not that he recommended doing it but he said it was an option.

 

[spoon]

Lol. I typed the above post last nite but apparantly forgot to send it so it's a little late. It was still on the screen this morning.
Bigbull I'm only planning on fertilizing 65 acres and the price may have gone up since I last checked a couple of weeks ago so I may have to spend even more than planned. I am in the process of fencing in a 25 acre field that I am hoping to turn a few cows loose in. I'm not going to fertilize it this year and hope for better prices next year.

 

[bigbull338]

putting fert on 65acs your looking at spending close to $6000 or more.an thats $95 an ac in fert.even at 4 bales to ac wich is highly unlikely.your looking at a fert cost of $22.50 a bale.logically youd get 3 bales to the ac.an thats $32 a bale.on now for your bottomline.total cost of hay is $65 a bale.now if i was you heres what id do not fert the hay field.hire the baler to bale it.keep all the hay an buy a few cows.but thats just me.an no 1 thinks like i do.because that $6000 could buy you 200 bales of hay.

 

[john250]

Just from the machinery side, the cost to cut, rake and bale an acre is the same, regardless of yield.
If you skip the fertilizer, you will quickly learn that yield is closely related to fertilizer.
I think the question you are asking is "make hay vs Don't make hay". Whether you sell it or feed it, you have to be able to see a return.
Someone posted about just spending a fixed amount on fertilizer. What they penciled they could afford. In my opinion, if you pencil that you cannot afford any, then sell the cattle and grow your next best alternate crop on the land.
A farmer just has to have yields. Whether it is grazing days per acre or bales per acre or bushels per acre. The fixed costs get you if you don't have enough to sell.
Don't ask me how I know all this. :nod:

 

[TexasBred]

that puts nitrogen in the ground.this giving you grazing an a cutting of hay.

If you graze it the N will go back into the ground in the form of manure. If you bale it the N, along with any other nutrients will go out with the hay. Most people have the misconception that the clover puts N into the soil via the roots. Very little N is transferred this way, most is through the vegetation. Rye grass does not produce N.

If you don't have any cattle you may want to make a deal with the baler to just buy it all. This way you are guaranteed a net profit.
I would not let anyone bale without fertilizing. It just robs the soil of nutrients if you don't, causing more fert to be added the next year.

Many legumes such as clover, beans, and alfalfa contain symbiotic bacteria within nodules in their root systems, producing nitrogen compounds that help the plant to grow and compete with other plants. When the plant dies, the fixed nitrogen is released, making it available to other plants and this helps to fertilize the soil,

 

[dyates]

What are you planning on using for $3000 on 65 acres? I figure my bill is gonna be more like a $100 per acre if I put on what I need to. I'm guessing you're thinking about doing what most people around here do and put on urea only. If so, you're shooting yourself in the foot. You'll get more volume than you would without it, but you'll sure wear out the ground in a hurry.

 

[spoon]

bigbull wrote

putting fert on 65acs your looking at spending close to $6000 or more.an thats $95 an ac in fert.even at 4 bales to ac wich is highly unlikely.your looking at a fert cost of $22.50 a bale.logically youd get 3 bales to the ac.an thats $32 a bale.on now for your bottomline.total cost of hay is $65 a bale.now if i was you heres what id do not fert the hay field.hire the baler to bale it.keep all the hay an buy a few cows.but thats just me.an no 1 thinks like i do.because that $6000 could buy you 200 bales of hay.

This guy wants the hay. he ran out this past winter and had to buy some. I don't think he'd be interested in just baling it. I'm sure there's people around here that do custom baling but I don't know any and I've already got a gentlemans agreement of sorts with this guy.

john250 wrote

Someone posted about just spending a fixed amount on fertilizer. What they penciled they could afford. In my opinion, if you pencil that you cannot afford any, then sell the cattle and grow your next best alternate crop on the land.

I don't have any cows to sell. That's part of the problem. With the high cost of fertilizer the price per bale is gonna be so high that if I end up not needing it I'd prolly lose money if I sell it unless we have another drought like last year. Then I sell it for a premium and make money. Between buying fencing and gates, trying to get a barn built, etc to get ready for cows money for fertilizer is near the bottom of the list right now.

dyates wrote

What are you planning on using for $3000 on 65 acres? I figure my bill is gonna be more like a $100 per acre if I put on what I need to. I'm guessing you're thinking about doing what most people around here do and put on urea only. If so, you're shooting yourself in the foot. You'll get more volume than you would without it, but you'll sure wear out the ground in a hurry.

I haven't checked prices lately. Obviously they have gone up since I last checked. :roll:

I believe I'm gonna wait until I get the results back from my soil test and then go talk to Mr. Kimball. (county agent for those too young to remember)
I appreciate all the input.

 

[bigbull338]

ahhhhhh now i see what the problem is.he wants you to spend money on fert.an let him buy the hay from you.an thats just wrong an he knows it.if you want to sell him the hay for say $8 a bale standing you can.an since he wants the hay HE can spend the $6000 grand on fert.thats the way its done here.the balers round here used to try to get fert hay for next to nothing.i told 1 baler that wanted it fert.that if i did that i sure as heck wouldnt give him any of the hay.that id keep all the hay.

 

[spoon]

Common practice here is for the owner to pay for the fertilizer and the baler does the rest and they split 50/50. He has offered to go 50/50 even if I didn't fertilize. He needs hay.

 

[KenB]

Common practice here is for the owner to pay for the fertilizer and the baler does the rest and they split 50/50. He has offered to go 50/50 even if I didn't fertilize. He needs hay.

Maybe he would to go 50/50 on the fertilizer as well.

 

[spoon]

Common practice here is for the owner to pay for the fertilizer and the baler does the rest and they split 50/50. He has offered to go 50/50 even if I didn't fertilize. He needs hay.

Maybe he would to go 50/50 on the fertilizer as well.

Can't hurt to ask. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[spoon]

Got my soil results back today with the recommendations of Mr. Kimball (county agent).
I sent two samples. First one was from majority and best part of the pasture. He recommended
100 lbs of 0-46-0 per acre along with 3 ton of lime per acre. The report itself from the University of Ky recommended 2 tons of lime per acre.The other sample was taken from a field that has never been fertilized and the top of some steep hills that are beginning to be taken over by briars and sagegrass. He recommended 100 lbs of 0-0-60 per acre and 3 tons of lime per acre again. UK recommended 2.67 ton per acre on this one.
sample 1. Phosphorus 45 sample 2. 66
Potassium 348 250
Soil ph 5.6 5.1
Buffer ph 6.6 6.2
Calcium 2208 2150
Magnesium 177 237
Zinc 4.2 3.3

Any and all comments welcome. Going back out and fence some more and will check back tonite. Thanks.

 

[spoon]

Mr. Kimball came by today and we discussed the soil sample results and the fertilizer recommendations. He changed his recommendation to 300 lbs per acre of 8-20-20. I called my local supplier and he doesn't mix a 8-20-20 but he does mix a 10-20-20. They're getting $575.20 per ton. Does that sound about right to y'all? Both the recommendation and the price?