Some Opinions For What They're Worth

[greenwillowherefords]

I read a letter to the editor of Hereford America recently, from a seasoned cattleman who said that the later in the spring calving season a calf is born, the heavier it tends to be because of available forage/nutrition.

I have observed this to be true. Exhibit A; fourth calf cow had her earliest calf ever, and also the lightest ever. The calves' weights have been according to how late in the season they were born without exception. (Each year she has calved earlier with the exception of last year when she lost a couple of weeks going way overdue. This year, she moved her date up over a month earlier.)

I'm concerned that birth weight should be controlled. However, I'm more concerned that my cows are able to have a big calf if they need to. No matter what the BW of the bull, sometimes a big calf shows up. I think the cow has more to do with BW than many people think. One of mine consistently throws mid seventies, another nineties. Same bulls. One as a first calf heifer without problem calved a 95# bull. I'm not afraid to breed her to a "terminal sire."

Just opinions of course. As some have said, everyone has them.

 

[1848]

Despite some breeders opinions on... "genetics is genetics and it doesn't matter how much you feed and animal they will have a certain birth weight no matter what",... I think you can add pounds at birth with nutrition availability especially if it is not consistent with normal foraging/grazing. I would like to see some information that says whether it's the high fat diet which makes a greater difference or the higher protein diet. I think allot of it just has to do with a cows metabolism and how her system distributes the available nutrition, and the genetic combination of the mating.

 

[Roadapple]

Despite some breeders opinions on... "genetics is genetics and it doesn't matter how much you feed and animal they will have a certain birth weight no matter what",... I think you can add pounds at birth with nutrition availability especially if it is not consistent with normal foraging/grazing. I would like to see some information that says whether it's the high fat diet which makes a greater difference or the higher protein diet. I think allot of it just has to do with a cows metabolism and how her system distributes the available nutrition, and the genetic combination of the mating.

From a book on animal health.Quote,"Protein is the basic structural material from which all body tissues are formed. It makes up muscles, nerves, skin, blood cells, hair, hooves.horns, and even the basic structure of the bones. [It is necessary for growth of the young animal even before birth.] It is especially required for milk production. Most enzymes and hormones that create the miraculous variety of normal body functions are made from proteins."

 

[1848]

Thanks Roadapple! I figured protein to be the logical choice, but it sure helps to have someone confirm it with fact! ;-)

Now tell me what a Roadapple is? :lol:

 

[dun]

There are alwasy those that spout off about calving when the grass is right and how that's better method of timing your breeding season. It still depends on your environment and how you market your calves. If you wait long enough to calve so that the grass is optimum, which changes year to year, you run into the problem of possibilitys of not getting the cow bred back on time because of the heat/humidity during breeding season.
The one size fits all, magic bullet concept just doesn;t work in the real world.

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I decided MANY years ago that the "factory" makes the biggest difference to calf size & gestation length. I've had cows that I could breed a "billy goat" to - and she would have 120# calf - she just liked to incubate and grow them big.
Some cows stay fat & still have big calves, or some stay fat & never give their calf any nutrition to grow & spit out dinks.

On your heifer that had a 95# calf - if the calf was out of same bull as your normal 70#, I wouldn't push the envelope too much on picking a bull with high BW. She obviously is going to "grow them out" and if you add the bulls genetics for "big" - they might get to be "monsters". Going on the assumption that she is going to grow the calf larger than what the bulls genetics are transmitting.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

The first herd bull I ever owned threw the 95 and the next year a 92. His actual BW was 87#, and his EPD was a tad under breed average. The next bull had an actual BW of 70#. He was the one who threw a 100# calf. Third bull, another 70# BW, sired 90# calf, lightest and earliest the cow ever has had. My point is, the 87# BW bull's calves averaged about the same as the 70# bulls' calves. The cow has more to do with it IMO. First 70# bull was about breed average BW EPD, second was about 2-3# under breed average BW EPD.

 

[CKC1586]

I decided MANY years ago that the "factory" makes the biggest difference to calf size & gestation length. I've had cows that I could breed a "billy goat" to - and she would have 120# calf - she just liked to incubate and grow them big.
Some cows stay fat & still have big calves, or some stay fat & never give their calf any nutrition to grow & spit out dinks.

On your heifer that had a 95# calf - if the calf was out of same bull as your normal 70#, I wouldn't push the envelope too much on picking a bull with high BW. She obviously is going to "grow them out" and if you add the bulls genetics for "big" - they might get to be "monsters". Going on the assumption that she is going to grow the calf larger than what the bulls genetics are transmitting.

I agree with you on the "factory" making a big difference in calf size. I had a cow that always went over her due date and regardless of the bull used calves are at least 90 plus pounds. This year I learned a valuable lesson in nutrition being that my bred heifer that I show was fed heavy thru November and her March (from a small calf bull) calf was a big one. I clearly had a part in that big birth weight.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

GWH - I was referring to your comment:
"One as a first calf heifer without problem calved a 95# bull. I'm not afraid to breed her to a "terminal sire."
When I said to be careful using a heavy BW bull.
I totally agree with what you were saying about the cow making the difference.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

GWH - I was referring to your comment:
"One as a first calf heifer without problem calved a 95# bull. I'm not afraid to breed her to a "terminal sire."
When I said to be careful using a heavy BW bull.
I totally agree with what you were saying about the cow making the difference.

Point taken, although I was also trying to show that even with a 17 pound difference in the sire weights, the calves were about the same. The cow who always throws mid seventies was bred to two of the same sires as the other cow in question.