Soil Samples

[kenny thomas]

In Australia most of our soils are very phosphorous deficient so in the more intensive areas most grazing properties will have an annual programme of applying what we call Super Phosphate (acid treated rock phosphate to give more soluble P&S). We get a response from the P&S but the rational is to feed the legumes which in turn produce the N for the grass growth.

I do do the occaisional soil test to see how things are going, mostly where I'm growing annual forages but at $150 a hit I do it sparingly.

I feel that it is very hard to get a good representative sample of soil from a paddock. Even taking sample from several different spots and mixing it together is not good as it only gives an average and some areas probably require a lot different treatment to others. Also some areas may have had a heavy dose of fertiliser land there last time it was spread and the effects linger on thereby not being a true representation of the paddock. This may explain why some people are distrusting of soil tests.

Ken

Kenny, here in Virginia the soil test is free. I mail it in on Monday and by Friday I have the results in an email.
Good point on it being an average. The more samples I take the closer I get to being correct. I can't take samples from 100 acres and get the proper results. I usually limit my area to 10-20 acres.,if I send several samples and they are all close in the results I try to match the average of those.

 

[herofan]

I feel that it is very hard to get a good representative sample of soil from a paddock. Even taking sample from several different spots and mixing it together is not good as it only gives an average and some areas probably require a lot different treatment to others. Also some areas may have had a heavy dose of fertiliser land there last time it was spread and the effects linger on thereby not being a true representation of the paddock. This may explain why some people are distrusting of soil tests.

Ken

That makes sense.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I feel that it is very hard to get a good representative sample of soil from a paddock. Even taking sample from several different spots and mixing it together is not good as it only gives an average and some areas probably require a lot different treatment to others.

Poor sampling. Best practice is to grid test 2.5 acre blocks.
Poor timing. Available mineral varies with biological activity at that time.
Poor moisture level. Nothing biological works w/o water.
Poor recommendations. Chemical sellers often misprescribe using 60 year old standards and test methods.

 

[Banjo]

You do realize that the average corn crop per acre in 1977 was less than 60 bu to the acre. In 2015 the adverage corn crop was almost 170 bu to the acre. Soybeans follow the same track as corn.

Actually it was around a 100 bushels to the acre, at least in this area. I remember my Dad planting 40 acres in corn that had never been in corn before, it had been in fescue for years....don't know the yield, because we cut it for silage, but it was the best piece of corn I had ever seen before or since...even the neighbors commented on how good it was.
Dad continued to put that field in silage corn but it never came close to being as good as it was the first time it was planted.
Back then everybody plowed their corn ground and we were destroying our organic matter thru tillage and we didn't even know it.
Plowing up a piece of ground isn't all bad....but you can't do it year after year after year. Its got to go back into grass every 2 or 3 years...for 2 or 3 years. But who does that anymore?
Ask the tobacco farmers around here how hard it is to grow tobacco nowadays...putting it in the same field year after year for years. Maybe the depletion of the humus and lack of rotation back into grass is the reason for all the diseases like blackshank, and bluemold, and all kinds of insects attacking it from start to finish.

And yes, corn has come along way. here they grow about 200 bu/ac. If I paid $300 or more for a bag of seed corn it better yield a whole lot. I highly doubt though that that 200 bu/ac bred to grow on pure chemicals is of the same quality that 100 bu corn was 40 years ago. Someone posted the other day about corn that had a 60lb test weight and 6% protein. looks like the protein would go up with the test weight.
Open pollinated corn grown in good soil and rotated will be 12%-13% protein.
I know that because I grew some one year and had it tested and it was 13%. Most likely the vitamin/mineral content was up there too, even though I didn't test that aspect.
But everything is about quantity these days....quality is a thing of the past.

 

[Texasmark]

It appears that most here have a positive view of soil samples. I wonder why the people in my area dont experience positive results?

Maybe it has to do with the: "Obviously your exacting soil/weather conditions/application ability and all the variables can and will modify the results.". Too much of this.

 

[ddd75]

people in ky and 'triple 19'

that what everyone throws down. You're wasting your money by not soil testing.

PH is an important factor that you need to know. Your other basic elements N P K.. you might have massive amounts of potash, so why waste money by putting on 'triple 19'

My very first rule is never 'listen to the neighbors'

 

[herofan]

people in ky and 'triple 19'

that what everyone throws down. You're wasting your money by not soil testing.

PH is an important factor that you need to know. Your other basic elements N P K.. you might have massive amounts of potash, so why waste money by putting on 'triple 19'

My very first rule is never 'listen to the neighbors'

But the point of my post was that people around here seem to have better luck with triple 19 than the soil test recommendations.

 

[kenny thomas]

people in ky and 'triple 19'

that what everyone throws down. You're wasting your money by not soil testing.

PH is an important factor that you need to know. Your other basic elements N P K.. you might have massive amounts of potash, so why waste money by putting on 'triple 19'

My very first rule is never 'listen to the neighbors'

But the point of my post was that people around here seem to have better luck with triple 19 than the soil test recommendations.

One thing to try, If you have a 20 acre field that is very consistent in slope, aspect, ground cover, and soil type try doing half of it by the soil test and the other half just spreading triple 19. Measure the results over a 3-5 year period and really see the difference.

 

[ddd75]

people in ky and 'triple 19'

that what everyone throws down. You're wasting your money by not soil testing.

PH is an important factor that you need to know. Your other basic elements N P K.. you might have massive amounts of potash, so why waste money by putting on 'triple 19'

My very first rule is never 'listen to the neighbors'

But the point of my post was that people around here seem to have better luck with triple 19 than the soil test recommendations.

well thats not how it works. I know exactly what they say, I hear the same thing.

They also roll 1/2 the hay I do or less, on the same ground.

 

[snoopdog]

We soil test , not doing so is a waste of money imo. I make it a point, to do what "the neighbors " tell me I can't . Most people that sit at the dead pecker tables in the coffee shops are F.O.S., Not all , but most .

 

[kenny thomas]

One thing I have noticed here is those that don't understand the soil test are the ones against it the most. I done some for a friend and it showed the soil very high in K. So much so that it was hurting the production. He had also limed it so much that the PH was 7.4. He said, we'll that can't be right and added 12-24-24 because he said too much N was hurting the soil. I just leave him alone.

 

[littletom]

It appears that most here have a positive view of soil samples. I wonder why the people in my area dont experience positive results?

Close minded have to do things same way grandpa did 40 years ago. Ok with good enough instead of as good as possible and most net per acre.

 

[Cucumber35]

How many of them 'actually' followed the soil test results? Completely. I'm betting not many. I will admit to not following them 100%. But I don't just throw out whatever I feel like either. I know the soil needs nutrients, that's obviously how things grow. But I don't find it affordable or practical to put down exactly what the soil test calls for all the time. I mostly use it to tell me what I DON'T need. If my P is below optimum but my K is WAY low, I'm gonna concentrate on correcting what is needed most. If I need lime, I'm not going to waste money on N. Soil tests are like most other things, a great tool in the box if used correctly. Not the Bible for your soil. I don't understand why you would not at least do one, they are ridiculously cheap and easy compared to the cost of fertilizer. There are plenty of people who can't justify the cost of fertilizing to soil test recommendations. But if you're going to make an investment, why not remove the blindfold and put it where you get the best returns? Throwing out 'Triple 19' every year and saying it works better sounds like an excuse for being lazy.

 

[littletom]

We soil test , not doing so is a waste of money imo. I make it a point, to do what "the neighbors " tell me I can't . Most people that sit at the dead pecker tables in the coffee shops are F.O.S., Not all , but most .

I have a friend that is a very successful BTO. When he makes a big move if they don't doubt him and say he will go broke, it concerns him. If they think its a good idea he is convinced no way in hill it will work.

 

[ddd75]

How many of them 'actually' followed the soil test results? Completely. I'm betting not many. I will admit to not following them 100%. But I don't just throw out whatever I feel like either. I know the soil needs nutrients, that's obviously how things grow. But I don't find it affordable or practical to put down exactly what the soil test calls for all the time. I mostly use it to tell me what I DON'T need. If my P is below optimum but my K is WAY low, I'm gonna concentrate on correcting what is needed most. If I need lime, I'm not going to waste money on N. Soil tests are like most other things, a great tool in the box if used correctly. Not the Bible for your soil. I don't understand why you would not at least do one, they are ridiculously cheap and easy compared to the cost of fertilizer. There are plenty of people who can't justify the cost of fertilizing to soil test recommendations. But if you're going to make an investment, why not remove the blindfold and put it where you get the best returns? Throwing out 'Triple 19' every year and saying it works better sounds like an excuse for being lazy.

hell if we all put down what they say too we'd all be broke!

 

[1982vett]

How many of them 'actually' followed the soil test results? Completely. I'm betting not many. I will admit to not following them 100%. But I don't just throw out whatever I feel like either. I know the soil needs nutrients, that's obviously how things grow. But I don't find it affordable or practical to put down exactly what the soil test calls for all the time. I mostly use it to tell me what I DON'T need. If my P is below optimum but my K is WAY low, I'm gonna concentrate on correcting what is needed most. If I need lime, I'm not going to waste money on N. Soil tests are like most other things, a great tool in the box if used correctly. Not the Bible for your soil. I don't understand why you would not at least do one, they are ridiculously cheap and easy compared to the cost of fertilizer. There are plenty of people who can't justify the cost of fertilizing to soil test recommendations. But if you're going to make an investment, why not remove the blindfold and put it where you get the best returns? Throwing out 'Triple 19' every year and saying it works better sounds like an excuse for being lazy.

be nice if we all put down what they say too we'd all be broke!

Tis the reason you sometimes throw the book out the window......

 

[Texasmark]

I do do the occaisional soil test to see how things are going, mostly where I'm growing annual forages but at $150 a hit I do it sparingly.

I feel that it is very hard to get a good representative sample of soil from a paddock. Even taking sample from several different spots and mixing it together is not good as it only gives an average and some areas probably require a lot different treatment to others. Also some areas may have had a heavy dose of fertiliser land there last time it was spread and the effects linger on thereby not being a true representation of the paddock. This may explain why some people are distrusting of soil tests.

Ken

I don't think TAMU (Texas A&M University) Soil Extension Service cares where the sample originates...aka US or wherever. As I said, the forms are online. Take your sample and package per their directions ........dry it out so as not to mildew, place in a zip lock bag, label for ID purposes with your personal info and where it came from on your farm...for your benefit if more than one sample is submitted. Price per bag is $10.

You include your email address and in the forms you download and send with the sample, indicate what you plan to produce (crop and volume) with the soil that's being sampled. They send you an electronic answer via your email and tell you how much of what you have and how much of what you need to do what you want. Depending on the season, you can have an answer in a few days plus shipping time from you to them.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Most people that sit at the dead pecker tables in the coffee shops are F.O.S.

How do you know if you are seated at a dead pecker table? :?

 

[wbvs58]

I do do the occaisional soil test to see how things are going, mostly where I'm growing annual forages but at $150 a hit I do it sparingly.

I feel that it is very hard to get a good representative sample of soil from a paddock. Even taking sample from several different spots and mixing it together is not good as it only gives an average and some areas probably require a lot different treatment to others. Also some areas may have had a heavy dose of fertiliser land there last time it was spread and the effects linger on thereby not being a true representation of the paddock. This may explain why some people are distrusting of soil tests.

Ken

I don't think TAMU (Texas A&M University) Soil Extension Service cares where the sample originates...aka US or wherever. As I said, the forms are online. Take your sample and package per their directions ........dry it out so as not to mildew, place in a zip lock bag, label for ID purposes with your personal info and where it came from on your farm...for your benefit if more than one sample is submitted. Price per bag is $10.

You include your email address and in the forms you download and send with the sample, indicate what you plan to produce (crop and volume) with the soil that's being sampled. They send you an electronic answer via your email and tell you how much of what you have and how much of what you need to do what you want. Depending on the season, you can have an answer in a few days plus shipping time from you to them.

Thanks for that but I don't think I'd be game to do that. I think I'd run into to much trouble with biosecurity sending soil from here to the US.

Ken

 

[herofan]

Most people that sit at the dead pecker tables in the coffee shops are F.O.S.

How do you know if you are seated at a dead pecker table? :?

That's what I was wondering. If it's true that you can't take advice from guys with dead peckers, I don't know what to do, because I don't have that much inside information on any guys I know. Of course, he did say dead pecker "table." Maybe they have their tables labeled.