Smart Hay

[JustSimmental]

I look around at all these posts about hay production and wonder. why?
How I reduced my hay costs by 60% ------ check this out:
http://www.beefcattlebiz.com/cattleequipment.html and look into Haymaster-- It works

JustSimm

 

[houstoncutter]

I think I was probably one of the first people on this board to mention the Haymaster system... It does work quite well, But, 60% savings on hay, maybe if u are able to buy last years hay at a very cheap price...With the price that hay is going to go for here in Texas if it doesnt rain...again maybe....It is a tool that at times makes sense...Other times its a waste of money.

 

[JustSimmental]

I don't really agree with your statement about it being a waste of money-- at any time, but ok.

I think about it this way:

1. A 75 - 60 - 100 NPK costs in excess of $225/acre spread.

2. Cutting your hay when it is at its highest nutritional level and making 3 -- 1200 lb rolls per acre then costs ~ 75.00/roll + baling + fuel; which let's say we have $80/roll in it (this is expensive cow feed and is premium grass hay at 13+% CP and 55% TDN

or

1. What happens if we don't cut it at its highest nutritional level and I let it get rank on purpose.

2. My fixed costs are the same (fertilizer, fuel, time)

3 Except instead of getting only 3 rolls per acre we get 6 to 8 rolls/acre and my cost per bale just went from $80/roll to $32/roll.

4. Also I have even more savings, because my yeild more than doubled, so I only need half the acres to make the same production, therefore I saved an additional $225 per acre for every acre I didnt use for hay production. What I did is buy more cows

5. Ok so I have 5% CP hay and 50% TDN ---- I use Haymaster and take the 5% CP / 50% TDN bale and boost it 5 - 8% in crude protein, which gives me near premium hay for $38.00/roll.

This is a savings of $42.00 /roll, which will pay for the hand held system on the first 14 rolls

or the 3pt hitch system on the first 60 rolls;

or better yet, pay for the FEL system on the first 84 rolls.

or even better than that --- I can buy 1200 lb rolls all day long for $20/roll and boost it up to near premium hay for an additional $6 or a total of $26/roll, which is a savings of $54/roll.

I just can't see a time--- where it wastes money... what other item on your farm/ranch paid for itself in 2 weeks?

I just don't like giving all my hard earned money to the Fertilzer Co-ops, but it is easy to pick up that phone and call them for a fertilizer delivery.

But, since we know that 60% of the costs associated with keeping cows on an annual basis goes to winter feeding, which for us means hay--- we decided to work smarter instead of harder and save a lot of money along the way --with Smart Hay.

JustSimms

I think I was probably one of the first people on this board to mention the Haymaster system... It does work quite well, But, 60% savings on hay, maybe if u are able to buy last years hay at a very cheap price...With the price that hay is going to go for here in Texas if it doesnt rain...again maybe....It is a tool that at times makes sense...Other times its a waste of money.

 

[houstoncutter]

The last time i checked with them it was going to cost about 10 dollars a bale and this did not include shipping or your labor, which is pretty intense if you do the hand held machine like I did. If you get the hay cheap, it makes sense. If your growing your own hay and your not in a drought situation, I not so sure.

 

[novatech]

A fella in Caldwell was buying cheap hay a couple of years ago during drought. He had it tested and ran it through a tub grinder where protein was added according to the test results.While everyone else was having to sell out he was making money.

 

[JustSimmental]

The "juice" is almost $6 per bale -- labor isn't even worth mentioning as you can juice a bale on the way to feeding it --even with the hand held unit it only takes 1 minute to juice one--so $0 labor. Shipping---- bought the "juice by the pallet --shipping was free or very minimal.

It is fine with me if everyone else wants to continue paying for high dollar fertilizer -- to each their own. I'm sure they "guys" at the Co-op love ya.

JustSimms

The last time i checked with them it was going to cost about 10 dollars a bale and this did not include shipping or your labor, which is pretty intense if you do the hand held machine like I did. If you get the hay cheap, it makes sense. If your growing your own hay and your not in a drought situation, I not so sure.

 

[J+ Cattle]

Explain for me why I would want to do this instead of just feeding the poor quality hay and putting out a lick tank with liquid feed? Isn't it basically the same thing except you are injecting the liquid into the bale and don't need the lick wheel tank?
Also, I bet the lick wheel tank is cheaper.

 

[houstoncutter]

The "juice" is almost $6 per bale -- labor isn't even worth mentioning as you can juice a bale on the way to feeding it --even with the hand held unit it only takes 1 minute to juice one--so $0 labor. Shipping---- bought the "juice by the pallet --shipping was free or very minimal.

It is fine with me if everyone else wants to continue paying for high dollar fertilizer -- to each their own. I'm sure they "guys" at the Co-op love ya.

JustSimms

The last time i checked with them it was going to cost about 10 dollars a bale and this did not include shipping or your labor, which is pretty intense if you do the hand held machine like I did. If you get the hay cheap, it makes sense. If your growing your own hay and your not in a drought situation, I not so sure.

I cant disagree with the prices that you are quoting, because it has been at least 5 years since I have purchased any product....As for the juicing a bale in a minute, think again. The hand held unit that I have, has to have you put the probe in the bale in at least 10 places to suturate the bale evenly. If the bales are tight this is not an easy process. Also you have told hold the trigger for about 15 to 20 seconds per punch to get the product in... U do the math....trustme it aint a minute... and while where on math....u stated earlier that you were producing 13 % CP hay with a TDN of 55% and you were gonna let that hay get rank and bale it at 5% Cp and have 50% TDN......Am I the only one that smells B.S. :bs: :bs: :bs: on that statement. Hay that goes from 13% to 5% CP is going to have a much larger drop in TDN than 5%, and most hay that is 13%CP is going to be a lot higher than 55% TDN to start with.They dont allow advertising on this board in the manner in which ur trying to do it

 

[1982vett]

I look around at all these posts about hay production and wonder. why?
How I reduced my hay costs by 60% ------ check this out:
http://www.beefcattlebiz.com/cattleequipment.html and look into Haymaster-- It works

JustSimm

:banana: :banana: :banana: ALL RIGHT....I don't have to worry about nutrition anymore.... :banana: :banana: :banana:


Lets't take the experment on step farther....from now on you will be fed rice cakes with an IV drip.....I"ll bet you can survive on that too....let's see if that works.

 

[JustSimmental]

Just trying to be helpful -- if "y'all" want to contine to be a slave to the Co-ops --thats fine with me-- carry on.............. I'm sure they appreciate your business.

Explain for me why I would want to do this instead of just feeding the poor quality hay and putting out a lick tank with liquid feed? Isn't it basically the same thing except you are injecting the liquid into the bale and don't need the lick wheel tank?
Also, I bet the lick wheel tank is cheaper

A simple answer ---- because "lick tanks" are free choice, but it might be close to the same. I think you can get that lick tank at your local Co-op.

I cant disagree with the prices that you are quoting, because it has been at least 5 years since I have purchased any product....As for the juicing a bale in a minute, think again. The hand held unit that I have, has to have you put the probe in the bale in at least 10 places to suturate the bale evenly. If the bales are tight this is not an easy process. Also you have told hold the trigger for about 15 to 20 seconds per punch to get the product in... U do the math....trustme it aint a minute... and while where on math....

Actually it takes 3 per side (so six) probes for 15 to 20 seconds each, so ok 2 minutes per bale which = $0 labor as I have both the hand held unit I bought to try it out and later purchased the FEL model

u stated earlier that you were producing 13 % CP hay with a TDN of 55% and you were gonna let that hay get rank and bale it at 5% Cp and have 50% TDN......Am I the only one that smells B.S. on that statement. Hay that goes from 13% to 5% CP is going to have a much larger drop in TDN than 5%, and most hay that is 13%CP is going to be a lot higher than 55% TDN to start with.They dont allow advertising on this board in the manner in which ur trying to do it

Well 13% and up is considered premium grass hay. Your TDN will greatly depend on the variety of grass you have planted --- this hay is from an old Alicia field, where 50% to 55% TDN is the norm-- at least since these feilds were planted in 1985. This particular variety (Alicia) doesn't flucuate that much between "premium hay" @ 13% CP and 5% CP as far as the TDN goes. You are just incorrect. I have been testing this hay since '85 and the TDN just doesn't drop that much between the optimal stage @ Premium and what I call "rank".

As far as advertising goes --- I am not a dealer for haymaster, I am a rancher that is sharing what I think is good information with others. It's ok if you want to continue doing whatever it is you are doing--forever, as everyone has to make their own decisions in the end.
There will always be those people that will deny the good or put down something new and that's fine with me, I just got tired of being a slave to hay and the co-op.

As far as performance goes, we weaned and weighed calves today and we averaged a 607 actual weaning weight for all calves and we had one bull calf come in at 835--no creep.

Off to the steakhouse for me-------- have a good evening-- rain tomorrow.

Later,

JustSimmental

 

[1982vett]

Off to the steakhouse for me-------- Later,

JustSimmental

OK! TOOT - TOOT :tiphat:

 

[b2b ranch]

I will say the people are not trying real hard for business. I sent in request over 2 weeks ago for more information on product and possible dealership. They have not responded at all. That makes me a little cautious about the company, still waiting to determine about the product.

 

[houstoncutter]

i couldnt figure out how to manuver some posts I made on the Haymaster injection system to this thread, but started the old thread back up...I believe this injection does have some merit, just dont know if the costs and time are always merit, if this system is used full time.

 

[JustSimmental]

Well most of you missed the real point of the post. I will try again.

If you bale your hay to make premium, you won't get but 3; 1200lb bales per acre, so cost per bale is very high, lets say for example $225/acre for fertilizer divided by 3 = $75 cost per bale + if custom baled add another $12, which is a total of $87.

Now if you let your hay field get rank (mature growth) on purpose and you make double the yeild(number of bales) then you spread out that $225/acre in the cost per bale category. 6 rolls per acre and your cost per bale is now only $37.50 + $12 = $49.50.

Not only do you make your $ go further, but you save many more dollars because you only need half of the hay acreage, which saves you another $225 per acre for every other acre you dont need.

Better yet, with all the folks out there baling hay you can just buy a low quality bale for $25 and use hay master on it and "juice it up" from say a 5% to 12-13% CP for $31; then use those acres for your cows.... you might have to buy more cows--I did. $31/$87 = 35% 100 - 35 = a 65% savings.............

Just a thought........ This is not for everyone, just an option. Not everyone wants to be more self-sufficient as it does take a little more management than calling the fertilizer co-op.

i couldnt figure out how to manuver some posts I made on the Haymaster injection system to this thread, but started the old thread back up...I believe this injection does have some merit, just dont know if the costs and time are always merit, if this system is used full time.

 

[TexasBred]

This particular variety (Alicia) doesn't flucuate that much between "premium hay" @ 13% CP and 5% CP as far as the TDN goes. You are just incorrect. I have been testing this hay since '85 and the TDN just doesn't drop that much between the optimal stage @ Premium and what I call "rank".

Ok Mr. Wizard, help me out here. You say CP drops from 13% to 5% yet TDN remains "almost" the same. No way in hel. Your primary nutrient of concern is Protein...it just dropped from 13% to 5%. Now...how much of that is digestible?? 55% of 13 is what?? 55% of 5 is what?? Looks like "total digestible nutrients" just dropped like a rock. And your NDF probably went thru the roof. ADF and NDF are much better indicators of hay value that TDN. If you're going to pay to have tested you might as well pay someone to teach you to read the results. :nod:

 

[JustSimmental]

ok Aggie--- let me try to explain it to you once again.

When you cut hay at the premium level (which most ppl count premium as 13%+ CP) Alicia will be around 50 - 55 % TDN---- ok (that's 3; 1200 lb rolls per acre)

When you let Alicia get rank (mature) your CP drops because of the stem:leaf ratio increases (more stem than leaf), but will still have a TDN of 50%. (that's 6;1200 lbs per acre)

Now let's figure feed values (FV) on both:
FV = CP x TDN; so .13 x .55 = 0.072 Premium
FV = CP x TDN; so .05 x .50 = 0.030 Rank

What we lost here isnt TDN; it is CP.

The haymaster system allows us to increase CP cheaper than baling premium hay. "THIS IS THE MAIN POINT"

If a 10 acre field is fertilized with a 75-60-75-10 N-P-K-S ($225/acre) and you make 3 rolls; the cost is $75 per roll-- if you bale your own hay that is 30 rolls @13% CP and 55% TDN
If a 10 acre field is fertilized with a 75-60-75-10 N-P-K-S ($225/acre) and you make 6 rolls; the cost is $37.50 per roll-- if you bale your own hay that is 60 rolls @ 5% CP and 50% TDN.

For an additional $6, we can boost the CP to premium quality where you basically have the same Feed value, but for much less $$. This is about saving money through better management of our resources.
$37.50 + $6.00 is cheaper than $75 dollar hay.... this is the end of the story!

Other savings include all those acres you dont have to use for premium hay production. Don't forget to count those acres as well.

Hope this helps....

JS

This particular variety (Alicia) doesn't flucuate that much between "premium hay" @ 13% CP and 5% CP as far as the TDN goes. You are just incorrect. I have been testing this hay since '85 and the TDN just doesn't drop that much between the optimal stage @ Premium and what I call "rank".

Ok Mr. Wizard, help me out here. You say CP drops from 13% to 5% yet TDN remains "almost" the same. No way in hel. Your primary nutrient of concern is Protein...it just dropped from 13% to 5%. Now...how much of that is digestible?? 55% of 13 is what?? 55% of 5 is what?? Looks like "total digestible nutrients" just dropped like a rock. And your NDF probably went thru the roof. ADF and NDF are much better indicators of hay value that TDN. If you're going to pay to have tested you might as well pay someone to teach you to read the results. :nod:

 

[houstoncutter]

Just Simmental, just wanted to point out a few holes in your plan.......You are going to allow your field to get rank...that I understand.......but to allow that field to get rank....that means you aint cutting it....im with you so for, but to say the field if cut at 13%cp versus 5%cp...and your example,... the production is cut in half....with you so for....but didnt you forget that if you where cutting the field on a regular basis you would be getting more cuttings of the better quality hay..Also unless they have made a change to their formulas.....HayMaster liquids do not have a limiter in them like a tub or lick....Ihope you took time to look at the other thread I started on here about HayMaster..if so what are your comments?

 

[TexasBred]

Now let's figure feed values (FV) on both:
FV = CP x TDN; so .13 x .55 = 0.072 Premium
FV = CP x TDN; so .05 x .50 = 0.030 Rank

What we lost here isnt TDN; it is CP.

JustSimmental....stop, take a deep breath and THINK....is not "protein" a nutrient, as in Total Digestible Nutrients"???????

your CP drops because of the stem:leaf ratio increases (more stem than leaf)

AS does your TDN and you NDF and ADF go straight up. (Look at your test sheet..it should show this)

 

[hereford2123]

I have a question for anyone out there.... i have some dairy cross steer calves they are now about 300 lbs.. i have had them on alfalfa of free choice and giving them abotu 3 lbs of cracked corn a day.. i ran out of corn and just went to get some more but got half oats half cracked corn... is it true that they will bloat beings they are getting oats with the alfalfa?? on average they should only be getting about 1.5 lb a day of oats should they be ok or not???

 

[TexasBred]

I have a question for anyone out there.... i have some dairy cross steer calves they are now about 300 lbs.. i have had them on alfalfa of free choice and giving them abotu 3 lbs of cracked corn a day.. i ran out of corn and just went to get some more but got half oats half cracked corn... is it true that they will bloat beings they are getting oats with the alfalfa?? on average they should only be getting about 1.5 lb a day of oats should they be ok or not???

You actually have a better ration with the oats than with the 3 lbs. of corn added to the mix. A little more mellow, less starch, more fiber and very digestible. If they were going to bloat they should ahve done it on the alfalfa already.