Single Trait Rejection

[3waycross]

We have heard from time to time the pitfalls of Single trait selection, but what about the opposite. Single Trait Rejection.

Many times I have seen some extremely good cattle posted here and the first thing we hear is he has a lazy--- or He has a weak----. Ad infinitum.

My question is if any of ya'll are bull shopping and find an otherwise outstanding speciman; All other things being equal do you reject it for a minor flaw or two.

Personally I usually don't but I won't say I haven't done it at least once or twice.

 

[redcowsrule33]

Depends on the flaw, I guess, and how "minor" it is to me. Now that I have been thinking about it, I can't think of a single trait that, if negative enough, I wouldn't dump something for. My zero tolerances are disposition, direct/maternal calving ease, a a sire whose dam has a bad udder. "He's perfect, but a little crabby" is a nosale. "he's perfect but a little bit post-legged" would be fine in most cases (most of my cows have enough set) but really post legged, nosale. Otherwise, there are enough shades of grey that I can't think of anything that I could say I would never select against as a single trait.

 

[alacattleman]

i hate to find a good bull that has a flaw that would only compound problems in my herd. when im breeding for replacement.. but for a terminal i wont pick him apart

 

[3waycross]

Depends on the flaw, I guess, and how "minor" it is to me. Now that I have been thinking about it, I can't think of a single trait that, if negative enough, I wouldn't dump something for. My zero tolerances are disposition, direct/maternal calving ease, a a sire whose dam has a bad udder. "He's perfect, but a little crabby" is a nosale. "he's perfect but a little bit post-legged" would be fine in most cases (most of my cows have enough set) but really post legged, nosale. Otherwise, there are enough shades of grey that I can't think of anything that I could say I would never select against as a single trait.

Just the kind of well thought out intelligent response that I was looking for;
I rejected a bull two years ago for one functional trait. His left front hoof toed out a bunch. I mighta bought him except for the fact that they had 3 others out of the same sire that showed the same flaw.

AC this is exactly why I rejected him, not so much that I already had that flaw but I have 3 cows out of a GV bull who's only weakness is sometimes they CAN have front leg issues. I have never seen it in their calves or them but am not going to open the door and let it in.

Sad thing about that deal was my friend bought him and he was a dandy other than the hoof problem. One year later he was one ugly sob. I have never seen a bulls head elongate like that. Worst part is he doesn't throw the front leg problem a lot but he sure throws that ugly head.

 

[1982vett]

Sad thing about that deal was my friend bought him and he was a dandy other than the hoof problem. One year later he was one ugly sob. I have never seen a bulls head elongate like that. Worst part is he doesn't throw the front leg problem a lot but he sure throws that ugly head.

Hmm.... maybe you ought to find some "ugly" headed cows to breed that ugly bull to........

Theory: Ever notice a lot of men that are so far from "hunky" and mate with the "two baggers" can have some drop dead gorgeous daughters?

 

[3waycross]

Sad thing about that deal was my friend bought him and he was a dandy other than the hoof problem. One year later he was one ugly sob. I have never seen a bulls head elongate like that. Worst part is he doesn't throw the front leg problem a lot but he sure throws that ugly head.

Hmm.... maybe you ought to find some "ugly" headed cows to breed that ugly bull to........

Theory: Ever notice a lot of men that are so far from "hunky" and mate with the "two baggers" can have some drop dead gorgeous daughters?

Well; so much for intelligent discourse on this thread :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[SRBeef]

My single trait rejection is for calving ease and disposition. If they have these two I will give up a little on phenotype. Since I am usually not around at calving time my cattle MUST be able to calve on there own. A bull can be a "meat wagon" but if his calves are not born unassisted he is not much use to me. I'd rather have a mediocre live steer than a perfect phenotype but dead calf and maybe heifer dam too. Hopefully I will be able to breed my target size in and improve overall phenotype over time. Same with disposition - I don't care if everything else is perfect, I don't want any animal with a bad or borderline disposition in my herd. Jmho. Jim

 

[dun]

The single biggest rejection trait for me is a week topline.

 

[S&S Farms]

I would say the things that can break the deal are feet and scrotal circumference. These are things that i need to see in person. Other things I would have already figured out from pictures or speaking to other customers if I wsa going to look at a bull.

 

[alacattleman]

Sad thing about that deal was my friend bought him and he was a dandy other than the hoof problem. One year later he was one ugly sob. I have never seen a bulls head elongate like that. Worst part is he doesn't throw the front leg problem a lot but he sure throws that ugly head.

Hmm.... maybe you ought to find some "ugly" headed cows to breed that ugly bull to........

Theory: Ever notice a lot of men that are so far from "hunky" and mate with the "two baggers" can have some drop dead gorgeous daughters?

but the chances all pretty good that those daughters hook up with a handsome man... and have a throwback kid,, luckly paved roads and automobles have corrected this problem over the years :cowboy:

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'm pretty rigid on traits that affect function feet, legs, sheath, udders etc as far as traits that are more appearance oriented heads, toplines etc I'm kind of a pretty is as pretty does kind of guy. They whack the head off first thing at the kill plant anyway. I've got a large cranium myself so probably biased lol. I find some breeders select away from nice broad muzzled cows the kind that usually last longer when things get tough.

 

[dun]

I'm pretty rigid on traits that affect function feet, legs, sheath, udders etc as far as traits that are more appearance oriented heads, toplines etc I'm kind of a pretty is as pretty does kind of guy. They whack the head off first thing at the kill plant anyway. I've got a large cranium myself so probably biased lol. I find some breeders select away from nice broad muzzled cows the kind that usually last longer when things get tough.

To me the topline is just as much a functional trait as feet, legs, etc. Weak topped daughters won;t last long. Roached tops are almost as bad

 

[Third Row]

Heat tolerance. If a cow is panting/struggling at a sale regardless of how hot it is I stop looking at her.

 

[alacattleman]

Heat tolerance. If a cow is panting/struggling at a sale regardless of how hot it is I stop looking at her.

i like heat tolerance for sure,,, but this time of year they all suffer packed up at a sale,, even worse some are just fighting for air

 

[Northern Rancher]

I've never lost a cow for having a 'weak' topline maybe I've never owned one-are they being culled for productive or cosmetic reasons. Landmark L56 had a bit of a dip and they only way his daughters leave is if you kill them with a stick. I have no idea what a roachback is either.

 

[alacattleman]

I've never lost a cow for having a 'weak' topline maybe I've never owned one-are they being culled for productive or cosmetic reasons. Landmark L56 had a bit of a dip and they only way his daughters leave is if you kill them with a stick. I have no idea what a roachback is either.

i had a few cows from old simmental bull i used once,, top line has a upward arch to it

 

[Northern Rancher]

Well can't say as I've ever seen that one before to any great extent.

 

[dun]

I've never lost a cow for having a 'weak' topline maybe I've never owned one-are they being culled for productive or cosmetic reasons. Landmark L56 had a bit of a dip and they only way his daughters leave is if you kill them with a stick. I have no idea what a roachback is either.

It's the opposite of a weak top, it's basicly humped.
We expect a cow to be productive and able to forage till she's 10-14 maybe 15 years old. Frequently cows with a weak top also have a tipped pelvis. Tipped pelvis can lead to reproductive failures and maybe even calving difficultys.

 

[dun]

Well can't say as I've ever seen that one before to any great extent.

Most of the ones we've had or that I've seen have a significant percentage of Holstein in them.

 

[3waycross]

I've never lost a cow for having a 'weak' topline maybe I've never owned one-are they being culled for productive or cosmetic reasons. Landmark L56 had a bit of a dip and they only way his daughters leave is if you kill them with a stick. I have no idea what a roachback is either.

My buddy has a roachback heifer. Just had her first calf this year he is a dandy calf but she already looks like hammered crap with that roach. She has every appearance of being a hard keeper and over the last two years her mother and grandmother were culled for other reasons. She was bred to my Angus bull last year and showed no sign of the roack until around calving time this year. It is already worse then her Grandmother had at the age of 4. Her mother never had it but failed to breedback after her first calf, and he was not a great calf.

If I can I will try to get a picture of her, as I wanted to start a thread on that anyway.