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<blockquote data-quote="Lucky_P" data-source="post: 942260" data-attributes="member: 12607"><p>Massey, </p><p>Angus isn't the only other genetics way back in the background on the PB Simmentals (or Angus, either, for that matter). Most of the 'continental' breeds have an open herdbook, allowing for 'breeding-up' to purebred status from any base. The black in many of my Simmental-influenced cows came from Holsteins and an old black horned cow - probably with some Jersey up close in her woodpile. I'm pretty certain that there are some good Hereford cows way back in the pedigree - even on the homo black PB Simmentals.</p><p></p><p>If you have to go 8-10 or more generations back to find something besides PB Simmental in the pedigree, it's hard to make a case that a black Simmental is significantly 'Angus'. </p><p>No, most of the modern PB American Simmentals don't look much like the FB or PB Simmental bulls I used back in the 80s - but today's Angus cattle don't look much like the Angus of that day, either. Coat color can hang in there, even when other breed traits are long gone - I'm still getting white calves out of descendents of a little yellow white-faced cow I bought in 1986, who evidently had some Charolais in her ancestry. 8 generations of 'black' breeding, and it still comes through - but they're not Charolais.</p><p></p><p>Some Angus purists won't have anything to do with anything with Pine Drive Big Sky in its background, no matter how far back he is - though there's no conclusive proof that he was, as some have rumored, 'the most influential Amerifax bull in Angus history'. I - and the AAA - consider my current Angus herdsire to be 100% Angus, even though PDBS is 8 generations back in his pedigree.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lucky_P, post: 942260, member: 12607"] Massey, Angus isn't the only other genetics way back in the background on the PB Simmentals (or Angus, either, for that matter). Most of the 'continental' breeds have an open herdbook, allowing for 'breeding-up' to purebred status from any base. The black in many of my Simmental-influenced cows came from Holsteins and an old black horned cow - probably with some Jersey up close in her woodpile. I'm pretty certain that there are some good Hereford cows way back in the pedigree - even on the homo black PB Simmentals. If you have to go 8-10 or more generations back to find something besides PB Simmental in the pedigree, it's hard to make a case that a black Simmental is significantly 'Angus'. No, most of the modern PB American Simmentals don't look much like the FB or PB Simmental bulls I used back in the 80s - but today's Angus cattle don't look much like the Angus of that day, either. Coat color can hang in there, even when other breed traits are long gone - I'm still getting white calves out of descendents of a little yellow white-faced cow I bought in 1986, who evidently had some Charolais in her ancestry. 8 generations of 'black' breeding, and it still comes through - but they're not Charolais. Some Angus purists won't have anything to do with anything with Pine Drive Big Sky in its background, no matter how far back he is - though there's no conclusive proof that he was, as some have rumored, 'the most influential Amerifax bull in Angus history'. I - and the AAA - consider my current Angus herdsire to be 100% Angus, even though PDBS is 8 generations back in his pedigree. [/QUOTE]
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