Should I change something up?

Help Support CattleToday:

mdt192

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Location
East Mississippi
On our farm, the only vaccinations that have been given are blackleg vacs for replacement heifers. For the last 20 years, we have been a small operation (15 cows / 1 bull). We'll also pour on de-worm once or twice during the warmer months.

I feel like we should be doing more; however, we haven't had issues that would suggest a direction to go. The cows calf in a timely manner (100 days), 100% live calving rate (this year - usually 90ish%), wean adequate size calves, cows keeping condition, breed back quick, etc.

I hate to fix something that isn't broke and add cost in the process, but I don't want to be heading into an issue either.

Any advice?

Thanks
 

Txpiney

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
351
Reaction score
2
Location
Wiergate,Tx.
Sounds to me like your looking for something to worry about. With that said, I give a 7 way w/blackleg, injectable worker and a poor on spring and fall so I don't have to worry hopefully. But stuff still happens, it's just good insurance
 

Rafter S

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
4,517
Reaction score
248
Location
Grimes County, TX
I certainly don't follow all the recommendations from the vets and pharmaceutical companies, but blackleg vaccine is cheap. I give it to all my calves when the youngest is 2 - 3 weeks old, and a booster to replacement heifers when I wean them.
 

Son of Butch

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
7,510
Reaction score
1,279
Location
Frost Bite Falls, Minnesota
Seems you are pretty much a 'closed' herd.
IF you decide to bring in outside cattle, I'd recommend adding something like Bovi-Shield Gold 5 for IBR, BVD, Pi3
and BRSV. $1.50 per shot

Had a friend years ago that had a closed herd, then added a part time hired man who also worked part time on
another farm. Long story short they believe he drug in BVD from that herd from manure on his work boots.
 

JMJ Farms

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
4,812
Reaction score
24
Location
Middle Georgia
Rafter S":2sbfid03 said:
I certainly don't follow all the recommendations from the vets and pharmaceutical companies, but blackleg vaccine is cheap. I give it to all my calves when the youngest is 2 - 3 weeks old, and a booster to replacement heifers when I wean them.

We had a case of blackleg in the county this year. I personally haven’t heard of any one having blackleg here since the 80s. The farmer told me the vet said start vaccinating for blackleg at 4 months old. Said before 4 months old he’d be wasting his time bc maternal antibodies would interfere with the vaccine. Can you vaccinate for blackleg earlier? Bc I’d like to do it at birth if it would work.
 

farmerjan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
3,867
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Shenandoah ValleyVirginia
Our vet said almost the exact same thing. Maternal antibodies will interfere with blackleg vacc and it is a waste of time and money to do at birth, up to at least 8-12 weeks. We try to do all calves around 8-12 weeks when they are getting moved to summer pasture. There are few that might be a bit younger, but better if older when we move them. Have started giving it to heifers we are retaining at the 6-10 month age, when we are making our first "cut" as to who is staying and who is going, and that's it. They develop their own immunity as they age so the shot to the heifers is just to cover all the bases. It's cheap. We lost 2 calves at pasture about 20 years ago and the vet diagnosed Blackleg. Have been diligent about vacc since then. We give lepto to all cows, and breeding age heifers.
 

ALACOWMAN

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
16,916
Reaction score
29
Location
Alabama the Beautiful
With the buzzard infestation we've been having,blackleg is a must...if it ain't on your property they will bring it to you...free of charge..one thing I would do is use a injectable wormer atleast once a season along with the pour on
 

JMJ Farms

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
4,812
Reaction score
24
Location
Middle Georgia
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3tl47wtq said:
Does a cow develop immunity to BL on their own?? without any vaccine?

Vet told me it only affects animals under 2 years of age. If he’s correct then the answer would be yes. Be simpler of immunity was passed from cow to calf.

The farmer I mentioned earlier lost 6. None under 300lb and none over 550. Just the (6) 4 weights. Go figure. I don’t quite understand as good as I would like to.
 

bird dog

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
2,366
Reaction score
501
Location
Navarro County, Texas
A closed herd ain't much good if the neighbor you share a fence with brings in problems. Thats where my pinkeye problem came from.

mdt stick to what you are doing if its working. I give my calves two rounds of blackleg and respiratory shots because that is how I market them. It also seems to keep my summer time pneumonia and shipping fever in check. An implant will add some cheap pounds to your calves.
 

TCRanch

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
5,844
Reaction score
1,724
Location
Winfield, KS
farmerjan":3iercrff said:
Our vet said almost the exact same thing. Maternal antibodies will interfere with blackleg vacc and it is a waste of time and money to do at birth, up to at least 8-12 weeks. We try to do all calves around 8-12 weeks when they are getting moved to summer pasture. There are few that might be a bit younger, but better if older when we move them. Have started giving it to heifers we are retaining at the 6-10 month age, when we are making our first "cut" as to who is staying and who is going, and that's it. They develop their own immunity as they age so the shot to the heifers is just to cover all the bases. It's cheap. We lost 2 calves at pasture about 20 years ago and the vet diagnosed Blackleg. Have been diligent about vacc since then. We give lepto to all cows, and breeding age heifers.
Same here and we vaccinate at appx 12 weeks for blackleg, pinkeye & worming. The exception is when we used to band at birth and the bull calves got Covexin 8 for the tetanus. Booster of Covexin 8, Triangle 4 + PH K & worming when we wean.
 

Ebenezer

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
2,058
Reaction score
23
Location
Piedmont of SC
If you send calves to the barn for feedlots the buyers would have less sickness and death loss if you vaccinated for respiratory issues.
 

Lucky_P

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
3,444
Reaction score
522
Location
Western KY
We have about as close to a 'closed' herd as most are gonna get... no fenceline contact with other cattle, have purchased and brought in two bulls over the past 12 years, anything that leaves never comes back.

I'm a minimalist...
Calves get an 8 or 9-way Clostridial bacterin/toxoid, including tetanus, at around 2 wks of age, and then a booster 3-4 weeks later. The 'interference of maternal antibody' deal that so many of us older veterinarians were taught back in the day has been shown not to be a significant concern.
Cows and heifers get an initial round of two doses of a Lepto HB bacterin, and a yearly booster. If there were an effective Neospora vaccine, I'd probably use it. If I had anaplasmosis in the herd, I'd be vaccinating against it.

Steers and heifers not retained (and for the past year or so, all heifers) get an initial pre-weaning dose of Inforce-3 and BVD One-Shot at insertion of Quiet-Wean nose blabs, then a booster of Inforce-3 2-3 weeks later, when the blabs are removed and calves separated from the cows. This should provide these calves with protection against most respiratory pathogens they'll encounter when they leave the farm in another couple of weeks.

YMMV... you may need to do more... unlikely that you need to do less.
Deworming/castration/implanting... certainly things to consider, and timing may play a role in optimizing efficacy of those practices.
I'll deworm calves, weanling and yearling heifers, and the occasional first-calf heifer... but can't recall the last time I dewormed a cow that was over 3 yrs of age.

C.chauvoei, the organism that causes blackleg, is a soil organism... it's everywhere, worldwide. If you don't vaccinate, and you've had no losses to it... you've just been fortunate, and if you 'roll the dice' long enough, you'll pay the price.
No 'age limit' on non-vaccinated cattle contracting it... I've seen it in a 3-yr old bull (unvaccinated), and in mature cows that had pretty good history of having been vaccinated as calves... so I now advocate boostering the cowherd with a Clostridial bacterin/toxoid at least every 2-3 years or so.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,310
Reaction score
1,204
Location
Central Upstate New York
Thanks for taking the time to list all that info.
So, on your calves, the first time they receive any respiratory vaccine is prior & at weaning?
Do you give your breeding herd any abortion preventing vaccines - Like BoviShield?
 

JMJ Farms

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
4,812
Reaction score
24
Location
Middle Georgia
Lucky_P":3mtpcjk9 said:
We have about as close to a 'closed' herd as most are gonna get... no fenceline contact with other cattle, have purchased and brought in two bulls over the past 12 years, anything that leaves never comes back.

I'm a minimalist...
Calves get an 8 or 9-way Clostridial bacterin/toxoid, including tetanus, at around 2 wks of age, and then a booster 3-4 weeks later. The 'interference of maternal antibody' deal that so many of us older veterinarians were taught back in the day has been shown not to be a significant concern.
Cows and heifers get an initial round of two doses of a Lepto HB bacterin, and a yearly booster. If there were an effective Neospora vaccine, I'd probably use it. If I had anaplasmosis in the herd, I'd be vaccinating against it.

Steers and heifers not retained (and for the past year or so, all heifers) get an initial pre-weaning dose of Inforce-3 and BVD One-Shot at insertion of Quiet-Wean nose blabs, then a booster of Inforce-3 2-3 weeks later, when the blabs are removed and calves separated from the cows. This should provide these calves with protection against most respiratory pathogens they'll encounter when they leave the farm in another couple of weeks.

YMMV... you may need to do more... unlikely that you need to do less.
Deworming/castration/implanting... certainly things to consider, and timing may play a role in optimizing efficacy of those practices.
I'll deworm calves, weanling and yearling heifers, and the occasional first-calf heifer... but can't recall the last time I dewormed a cow that was over 3 yrs of age.

C.chauvoei, the organism that causes blackleg, is a soil organism... it's everywhere, worldwide. If you don't vaccinate, and you've had no losses to it... you've just been fortunate, and if you 'roll the dice' long enough, you'll pay the price.
No 'age limit' on non-vaccinated cattle contracting it... I've seen it in a 3-yr old bull (unvaccinated), and in mature cows that had pretty good history of having been vaccinated as calves... so I now advocate boostering the cowherd with a Clostridial bacterin/toxoid at least every 2-3 years or so.

One of the most informative posts I’ve ever read on here. Thanks. LuckyP if you’re a minimalist then I’m not sure what I’m classified as... but it’s lower than that :tiphat:
 

76 Bar

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
217
Location
South Western Oregon
Was hoping you'd chime in LuckyP. As usual, superlative advice. Appreciate that you commented on the age old conventional wisdom of maternal antibody interference. Current research proves otherwise but its typically hard to teach old dogs new tricks. VBG. You'd likely think my vaccination protocol over the top but buyers are happy so I'll continue. Incorporated Lepto HB and the "experimental" Anaplaz killed vaccine when both became available. The latter strictly for bulls not indigenous to my endemic area.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,310
Reaction score
1,204
Location
Central Upstate New York
76 Bar":3qg7n9sm said:
Was hoping you'd chime in LuckyP. As usual, superlative advice. Appreciate that you commented on the age old conventional wisdom of maternal antibody interference. Current research proves otherwise but its typically hard to teach old dogs new tricks. VBG. You'd likely think my vaccination protocol over the top but buyers are happy so I'll continue. Incorporated Lepto HB and the "experimental" Anaplaz killed vaccine when both became available. The latter strictly for bulls not indigenous to my endemic area.
I have told others that, but as you say, difficult to change others opinions when "research" told us the opposite for so many years.
 

76 Bar

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
217
Location
South Western Oregon
Unfortunately, far too many veterinarians fail to keep abreast or worse, look askance at newer technology. Suffice it to say, its prudent to be well educated.
 

Latest posts

Top