Semen selection

novatech

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I have often herd on here that one should choose semen according to to the cow being bred. I do have a problem with that because it will build a non uniform herd. If one chooses the semen correctly and the herd is fairly uniform to begin with then why throw a wrench in things with something different? The whole idea of AI to me is the ability to choose the most perfect bull you can find. No mater what you choose you are going to bring in something you don't like but by using the same bull on everything you at least have some consistency.
 
The problem comes when the cow herd isn't uniform perhaps. I have large frame cows I want to bring down so I use a small frame bull. I also have one particular small framed cow that always seems to throw a large framed calf - always a great calf, but always large framed - so I have to use a smaller framed bull on her too or I'll get monsters. Likewise, I have some smaller framed cattle that need to be brought up or I won't be able to sell their bulls as bulls . . . . etc . . .
 
you look at your cows weaknesses.an you pick AI bulls that will correct the cows weaknesses an problems with their calves over time.in doing so you may end up with 4 or 5 bulls in your tank that you breed your cows to.an overtime youll end up with a tank full of semen that you didnt use.
 
novatech":3ka2srt4 said:
I have often herd on here that one should choose semen according to to the cow being bred. I do have a problem with that because it will build a non uniform herd. If one chooses the semen correctly and the herd is fairly uniform to begin with then why throw a wrench in things with something different? The whole idea of AI to me is the ability to choose the most perfect bull you can find. No mater what you choose you are going to bring in something you don't like but by using the same bull on everything you at least have some consistency.

You answered your own question: "...the herd is fairly uniform to begin with...." By selecting bulls to match individual cows you can produce a more uniform calf crop. We've got several sisters and 3/4 sisters that we breed to the same bull. But we've also got some bigger framed cows that we breed to moderate framed bulls and vice versa. AI gives you all sorts of options you don't have with a bull. You can improve carcass quality, add frame/muscling, improve milk.....

If you pick your bulls carefully and don't overbuy you shouldn't wind up with a bunch of semen you don't want.
 
In theory all the various bulls in your tank should all be very much the same type, some must just be leaning slightly in the direction you want to improve on the specific cow.

In reality I think bigbull338 has it spot on with this statement

an overtime youll end up with a tank full of semen that you didnt use.

That is exactly the situation in my tank. Its just a fact that some bulls don't quite work out as planned and I'm not stupid enough to continue using them.
 
i have a friend that has 4 or 5 semen juggs.an i do not know how much semen he has in them.but i bet he has some thats almost full.i know he has some semen in there thats 40yrs old or more.
 
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Frankie":2ech1ino said:
If you pick your bulls carefully and don't overbuy you shouldn't wind up with a bunch of semen you don't want.

They're a catch to that though. We bought 5 units of one particular bull, got 2 heifers and 2 steers from it. The heifers turned out to be dandy cows and thr steers did well on the rail. Went back to buy a bunch of the semen and he wasn;t available any longer. I sat on that one last unit for a long time and finally used it and got a bull calf from a cow that I wanted a heifer from.
 
I appreciate what ya'll are saying. But by using different bulls you are also taking the risk of bringing in genetics that do not fit your plan. There are several things that EPD's do not address. Such as tit size, bag, temperament, etc. The new EPS's for your breed may but the old bulls I use do not. I get that information from old timers and looking at cattle with the genetics from the bulls I like. And yes I also look at the EPD's.
When I find a bull that meets all my criteria (That has actually never happened, but I get as close as I can) then I use him on everything. Small frames come up, large come down, bags and tits improve on those that need it. (In reality that does not happen either.) The cows that already have the characteristics are improved by reinforcement. It just seems like every time I have strayed from this I have ended up with something I did not like. I have a great cow in my herd with 6 inch tits. She is no problem now but she will be. With my cattle it takes 3 years to find out what kind of momma I produced.
At this point I feel that the bulls I have been using are to fine boned and would like to improve on this but do not like the idea of screwing up something I have worked very hard to attain. I guess that is what breeding is all about, taking the risk and culling when you have to.
 
The fewer bulls used the herd goes in one direction better.To me useing lots of bulls is kinda like single trait selection.

The more uniform the herd is the easyer it is to manage both nutrition and breeding choices.You may not have something for everyone,but that was never my goal anyway.

Seems some really like to chase the "great one" I would rather sell 20 bulls for $2,500 than 1 for $50,000,at least in principal.I guess I could make alot more money if I could con someone into paying $50,000 for one bull and selling 19 steers.
 
My take on the multiple bull deal is that since we only keep heifers from a few specific cows that using a bull that will compliment the individual cow better will have the affect of more standardizing the cow herd. For the meat making cows, i.e. those that we wouldn;t keep a calf from anyway, we use a bull that will address any weakness but from the meat/carcass aspect. A cow that is a little light on marbling or ribeye would be bred to a bull that is those traits, if she's a little light in the muscle expression (not a big butt) she would be nred to a bull with a lot more muscle as long as it doesn;t detract from the positives of marbling and ribeye. A few may need to have the backfat issue addressed, etc. The goal is to produce #1 and high #2 muscle in a large medium to small large frame. Those are the calves that our buyers are looking for.
For the heifer making cows, the bull still needs to have accdeptable carcass traits since we want those in the cow herd anyway but may need deeper heels, better legs, less milk, stronger udder, etc.
But I've found that over the years a lot of the bulls we tend to use for the heifer making are all sons or grandsons of a couple of specific bulls. I don;t go shopping for that bloodline but it seems that those are the bulls that I prefer.

Sorry, looks like I'm in verbose mode tonight
 
If you are taking a risk of "bringing in genetics that do not fit your plan" by using multiple bulls, aren't you risking bringing in genetics that ruin an entire calf crop if you use the same bull on everything?

Do you keep replacement heifers and AI them? If so, do you only use calving ease bulls on the entire herd?
 
Third Row":1bzde2al said:
If you are taking a risk of "bringing in genetics that do not fit your plan" by using multiple bulls, aren't you risking bringing in genetics that ruin an entire calf crop if you use the same bull on everything?

Do you keep replacement heifers and AI them? If so, do you only use calving ease bulls on the entire herd?

The calf crop is really ruined if you don't like them, they taste delicious.
 
Third Row":30lffqmx said:
Oh, well if that's what you're going for, why not just a Wagyu on everything?

You might sample a couple bulls one year and bred a large number of cows to one on them the next.I would like all my cows to be very uniform.My hope is that in breeding to a limited number of bulls I can move the herd as uniform group in the direction I desire.I guess I have alot of eggs in one basket,but if I mess them up to bad they will taste fine and I can start over.
 
That's my opinion as well. We have one go to bull for cows, one for heifers, and then a sample of about half a dozen bulls to try out on various cows that need help in specific areas.
 

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