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<blockquote data-quote="inyati13" data-source="post: 1128239" data-attributes="member: 17767"><p>AllForage. Glad you are back. I enjoy your messages.</p><p></p><p>Your questions are "rhetorical". In other words, you are not asking questions to get a precise response but to raise an issue about a breeding practice that you find fault in. I understand the criticism contained in your questions and to a lesser degree, I agree with you. But AllForage, you have been here before and I doubt very much that anyone is going to change what they are doing based on your comments. Why? Because there are too many reasons for why people are doing things the way they are than you are acknowledging.</p><p></p><p>Issues of this nature require more dialog than any of us are willing to contribute on a forum. In its simplest form, the objective of breeding is to multiply animals. Mankind has already bred cattle for centuries to obtain the fundamental desirable characteristics. Now we are putting a fine point on it. We want to "stagnant" the genetic pool of the population to a degree that the frequency at which undesirable traits appear is reduced to the lowest tolerable levels, what ever that might be. For example, if your herd has achieved the form and function of udder you covet, you want to maintain that consistency by suppressing any other phenotype for udder in your herd. I acknowledge that concept.</p><p></p><p>But you are missing too many possibilities for what drives cattle markets and cattle breeding. Money is one of those. If you want to move to a monastery and live like Gregor Mendel, then more power to you. But approaching breeding in such a purest fashion is leaving a lot on the table.</p><p></p><p>I will give you this: your objective is the correct one. But I disagree that the guy who selects semen from sires in a catalog is as far behind you as you imply. The genetic pool that we call domestic cattle is already "stagnant" compared with the ancestors of domestic cattle. Mankind has bred cattle for several centuries to narrow down the genetic pool so he gets the traits he wants such as being docile, good milk producers, no horns, etc.</p><p></p><p>The breeder who uses semen from select sires also has to predicate his selection on his knowledge of the cows he intends to breed. The breeder selects semen based on the sire's track record in the progeny he has produced. In addition, the flexibility of bringing in traits not dominant in your population is available.</p><p></p><p>In the end, both are pursuing the same practice of breeding for desirable traits which is what has been going on for centuries. I think more credit is due those breeders like FSR who wisely employee semen from "outstanding" sires available in the market place to produce the traits that they covet just like you do.</p><p></p><p>From our past discussions feel free to use "stable" where I use "stagnant".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="inyati13, post: 1128239, member: 17767"] AllForage. Glad you are back. I enjoy your messages. Your questions are “rhetorical”. In other words, you are not asking questions to get a precise response but to raise an issue about a breeding practice that you find fault in. I understand the criticism contained in your questions and to a lesser degree, I agree with you. But AllForage, you have been here before and I doubt very much that anyone is going to change what they are doing based on your comments. Why? Because there are too many reasons for why people are doing things the way they are than you are acknowledging. Issues of this nature require more dialog than any of us are willing to contribute on a forum. In its simplest form, the objective of breeding is to multiply animals. Mankind has already bred cattle for centuries to obtain the fundamental desirable characteristics. Now we are putting a fine point on it. We want to “stagnant” the genetic pool of the population to a degree that the frequency at which undesirable traits appear is reduced to the lowest tolerable levels, what ever that might be. For example, if your herd has achieved the form and function of udder you covet, you want to maintain that consistency by suppressing any other phenotype for udder in your herd. I acknowledge that concept. But you are missing too many possibilities for what drives cattle markets and cattle breeding. Money is one of those. If you want to move to a monastery and live like Gregor Mendel, then more power to you. But approaching breeding in such a purest fashion is leaving a lot on the table. I will give you this: your objective is the correct one. But I disagree that the guy who selects semen from sires in a catalog is as far behind you as you imply. The genetic pool that we call domestic cattle is already “stagnant” compared with the ancestors of domestic cattle. Mankind has bred cattle for several centuries to narrow down the genetic pool so he gets the traits he wants such as being docile, good milk producers, no horns, etc. The breeder who uses semen from select sires also has to predicate his selection on his knowledge of the cows he intends to breed. The breeder selects semen based on the sire’s track record in the progeny he has produced. In addition, the flexibility of bringing in traits not dominant in your population is available. In the end, both are pursuing the same practice of breeding for desirable traits which is what has been going on for centuries. I think more credit is due those breeders like FSR who wisely employee semen from “outstanding” sires available in the market place to produce the traits that they covet just like you do. From our past discussions feel free to use “stable” where I use “stagnant”. [/QUOTE]
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