School's

regenwether

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
237
City & State/Province
Iowa
I was wondering if anyone here is have the same probelm in your next of the woods. Declining enrollment with state cuts in funding for K-12 education. I guess(like farming) you can't buck trends. A lot of emotion when it deals with our kids
 
Not knowing where you are, declining enrollment is not what the problem is here. But every state, just about, is facing budget cuts for schools and I guess just about everything else. Sign of the times. I do know that homeschooling is increasing in this state with reported numbers way up, and who knows how many unreported. While that isn't my bag, I have to acknowledge it.

I don't think this situation will get any better any time soon.
 
We home school and would not even consider sending our children to public schools in our area or probably anywhere. They are horrible state run failures, extremely liberal, watered down beyond belief, don't teach our Christian values...I could go on and on. It's still America (I think) and we're going to raise and teach our own children our values and not the gov. mandated garbage. We are going to teach them the Truth. Rant over.
 
tncattle":1s9w0z32 said:
We home school and would not even consider sending our children to public schools in our area or probably anywhere. They are horrible state run failures, extremely liberal, watered down beyond belief, don't teach our Christian values...I could go on and on. It's still America (I think) and we're going to raise and teach our own children our values and not the gov. mandated garbage. We are going to teach them the Truth. Rant over.

It is sometimes useful to recall that our country was founded on the premise of keeping church and state separated. My kids have attended Catholic schools during parts of their education and church related schools or home schooling are always an option.

But please do not criticize one of the basics of the founding of our country. I sure hope your kids are learning about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution in their home schooling. jmho.

Jim
 
That is about half the problem will the School system, The start of private schools 30-40 years ago pulling the top 10 to 15 % of the Money people out, and the others that want to keep their kids from the real world. Thus the people that care or have the money and power to do something has little care with what is going on.. Thus a sorry school system....
 
I think we have to go way far to one side and the other before we find something good in the middle. I haven't seen middle in so long I can't remember what it looked like.
 
Black Coos":kg7yttgj said:
That is about half the problem will the School system, The start of private schools 30-40 years ago pulling the top 10 to 15 % of the Money people out, and the others that want to keep their kids from the real world. Thus the people that care or have the money and power to do something has little care with what is going on.. Thus a sorry school system....
My girls went to Catholic schools. I never considered us "money people" nor them smarter than any of the kids at the public school. It was just our choice. Kids can learn if they want to learn. Too many are not interested in education and their parents certainly are not. Don't forget those "money people" still pay public school taxes on those big estates even tho the kids don't use the schools. If I remember we paid $75 per month per child for the kids to attend Catholic school. I'm sure it's much more than that now. But it was worth every penny we spent. There probably is a money problem at most schools but most could also utilize the money better if they would.
 
My take, we test so much, and then you have to pay to train teachers to give the test, then you have to pay people to monitor the test, and then you have to use the curriculum that is needed for the students to pass the test, and you have to pay someone else BIG bucks to make sure that everyone can use the curriculum because it's so complicated.

And the new curriculum works almost entirely off worksheets, which is one of the WORST things you can use to teach. The worksheets use LOTS of paper, which makes that budget go up. The paper gets wadded up and thrown away in the parking lot.

The student passes the test and forgets everything he learned because the point is to PASS THE TEST and not necessarily to retain anything.

The schools, if they can get enough students to pass the test, get recognition for their success.

It's all about the test folks. I really don't think we care what happens after that. Some do, but if test goes badly, everything goes badly.
 
SRBeef":219r3pqr said:
tncattle":219r3pqr said:
We home school and would not even consider sending our children to public schools in our area or probably anywhere. They are horrible state run failures, extremely liberal, watered down beyond belief, don't teach our Christian values...I could go on and on. It's still America (I think) and we're going to raise and teach our own children our values and not the gov. mandated garbage. We are going to teach them the Truth. Rant over.

It is sometimes useful to recall that our country was founded on the premise of keeping church and state separated. My kids have attended Catholic schools during parts of their education and church related schools or home schooling are always an option.

But please do not criticize one of the basics of the founding of our country. I sure hope your kids are learning about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution in their home schooling. jmho.

Jim
Jim, could you please point out which founding document that separation of church and state is located in?
 
Black Coos":2uhmoa0o said:
That is about half the problem will the School system, The start of private schools 30-40 years ago pulling the top 10 to 15 % of the Money people out, and the others that want to keep their kids from the real world. Thus the people that care or have the money and power to do something has little care with what is going on.. Thus a sorry school system....

You seriously believe that private schools have only been around for 30-40 years?
 
tncattle":1g72ovih said:
SRBeef":1g72ovih said:
tncattle":1g72ovih said:
We home school and would not even consider sending our children to public schools in our area or probably anywhere. They are horrible state run failures, extremely liberal, watered down beyond belief, don't teach our Christian values...I could go on and on. It's still America (I think) and we're going to raise and teach our own children our values and not the gov. mandated garbage. We are going to teach them the Truth. Rant over.

It is sometimes useful to recall that our country was founded on the premise of keeping church and state separated. My kids have attended Catholic schools during parts of their education and church related schools or home schooling are always an option.

But please do not criticize one of the basics of the founding of our country. I sure hope your kids are learning about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution in their home schooling. jmho.

Jim
Jim, could you please point out which founding document that separation of church and state is located in?

The first of the First Amendment's two religion clauses reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ... .” Note that the clause is absolute. It allows no law. It is also noteworthy that the clause forbids more than the establishment of religion by the government. It forbids even laws respecting an establishment of religion. The establishment clause sets up a line of demarcation between the functions and operations of the institutions of religion and government in our society. It does so because the framers of the First Amendment recognized that when the roles of the government and religion are intertwined, the result too often has been bloodshed or oppression.

For the first 150 years of our nation’s history, there were very few occasions for the courts to interpret the establishment clause because the First Amendment had not yet been applied to the states. As written, the First Amendment applied only to Congress and the federal government. In the wake of the Civil War, however, the 14th Amendment was adopted. It reads in part that “no state shall ... deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law... .” In 1947 the Supreme Court held in Everson v. Board of Education that the establishment clause is one of the “liberties” protected by the due-process clause. From that point on, all government action, whether at the federal, state, or local level, must abide by the restrictions of the establishment clause.

Establishment
There is much debate about the meaning of the term “establishment of religion.” Although judges rely on history, the framers’ other writings and prior judicial precedent, they sometimes disagree. Some, including former Chief Justice William Rehnquist, have argued that the term was intended to prohibit only the establishment of a single national church or the preference of one religious sect over another. Others believe the term prohibits the government from promoting religion in general as well as the preference of one religion over another. In the words of the Court in Everson:


“The establishment of religion clause means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government may set up a church. Neither can pass laws that aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion... . Neither a state or the federal government may, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and state."

Although the actual words "separation of church and state" are not in the Constitution, that's how the U.S. Supreme Court interprets the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Like it or not, that's now the law of the land.
 
I taught five years before I came back to the farm, and here's my 2 cents.
I always heard about how brilliant and advanced home-schooled children were, but the kids I had that had been home schooled were always WAY behind the curriculum and major slackers too. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but I never saw a single one.
The pressure to conform and join dues-collecting liberal teacher groups was incredible, especially while I was in college, and they did everything they could to make you feel like you were at great risk of being sued, fired, etc, but the "union" would protect you. I didn't care for that.
Lammie's comments about teaching to the important tests are a huge understatement in my opinion. It is ridiculous. As an intern, I sat in on public school classes that were remediation for kids who couldn't pass the gradution exam. Pathetic.
I believe in the separation of church and state, and I resented how little time there was left for teaching by the time we got through all the safety, state goal, and character issues that parents should have been teaching at home. I know there are a lot of kids falling through the cracks of sorry parenting, but I don't think it ought to hinder the education of children whose parents are involved. I don't know the magic answer for that one.
I also think a big problem is the lack of expulsions - or serious consequences in general. Telling a few more people that dangerous, disruptive, and flat out mean behavior means you forfeit being here might do a little more to curb some of the crap that goes on in schools.
 
The goverment shouldn't force school on everyone under 18 years old. If the kids don't want to be there let them quit, but they should still be able to get their drivers license. Most public school teachers are over paid. A teacher only works 200 days per year, and they have bankers hours to boot. Schools need to spend their budget money on teaching the trades. I learned how to weld, use a table saw, rebuild small engines, and my truck engine while in high school. They don't even offer those courses any more around here. All the new schools are wasting their money on landscaping an architecture of the buildings.
 
I attended parochial schools for my education. I now pay for my grandchildren to attend the same. But I guarantee you it is not $ 75.00. I pay about $12,500 for two children in Keller Texas, and $ 9,200. for one child in Sacramento. So I am raising cows and grandkids and cannot make a profit on either.
 
Anyone ever heard of "The New England Primer"? "Most scholars agree that most, if not all, of the Founding Fathers were taught to read and write using this volume which is unsurpassed to this day for it's excellence of practical training and Christian worldview."
Douglas W. Phillips
 
I see the dumbing down of education. The bright or the learners are in the minority now. The disruptives and special needs are in the majority. Teachers spend more time keeping kids in check rather than teaching. We dumb down the education so everyone passes. Some schools, not as many students so classes are smaller or more split grades. Classes rarely teach English, math, science, history, social studies. Now English is not book reports, and essays, but rather projects about a book. Math is generic easy. History, social studies and science are lumped into one and called something along the likes of explorative studies. Mostly projects. Kids constantly roaming the halls, and they know no consequences for actions.
We have more Education Assistants per class and more EA's who have only one student all day because of behavior problems. Gone are the days of 1 teacher to 25 students. Now it is like 10-20 kids, 1 teacher, 1 ea and then if there is a problem student another ea.
Our school boards are top heavy, so the administration funds are huge compared to what goes into the class room.
Then there are so many things that go on during class hours. In the 200 days of schooling more movie days, more enrichment days, more "special days" all where the class room time is not for learning but having fun. The last two weeks before Christmas, spring or school break, learning stops and fun begins

Last but not least majority of parents do not seem to support the teachers, but rather fight them.
 
papavillars":1qk2l5pj said:
I attended parochial schools for my education. I now pay for my grandchildren to attend the same. But I guarantee you it is not $ 75.00. I pay about $12,500 for two children in Keller Texas, and $ 9,200. for one child in Sacramento. So I am raising cows and grandkids and cannot make a profit on either.

Dang Papa....inflation has really sent it up in 20 years..... got my curiosity up now....gotta see waht it would cost today at good old "St.Mary's". ;-)
 
Our kids only go to school 170 days per year. I agree our schools are dumbing down, need to teach the four basic classes. Illegal immigrants are destroying our kids education. The schools should teach Chinese because their going to run the world. Teaching is stressfull for sure but there's alot of jobs that are worst. Working 8-9 hours a day including breaks and lunch is a short day compared to most folks.
 
Now I will say this for teachers, for those that are actually teaching, it is a gut-buster. Imagine you had to give six or so presentations everyday at work, in some cases that many different ones. And there are no breaks or lunch, because they have to play cop when the kids have breaks and lunch. And maybe somebody could grade a whole days work and make plans for tomorrow in that 50 minute time called a planning period, but I sure as heck couldn't. When I was teaching, I went to bed every night and got up every morning feeling like I was behind and that didn't stop until June. I will never again work that hard for that little bit of money. Overpaid? My income was below the poverty line.
 

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