SCARED

[PNZMAN]

im wanting to use a santa gertrudis bull on angus based cows but im scared of the calving ease . does anyone have any expertise to lend besides the calf puller......and do you think this cross will do ok

 

[krenwic]

angus is a calving ease breed...shouldn't have many problems as long as you pick the right gert bull. usually make a heck of a commercial cross cow

 

[UG]

angus is a calving ease breed...shouldn't have many problems as long as you pick the right gert bull. usually make a heck of a commercial cross cow

Angus used to be known as the calving ease breed. Over the past 20 years Angus breeders have done a great job of increasing the growth rate in the general population of their breed. However, improving their growth rate has resulted in bigger calves at birth (thus poorer calving ease) and bigger framed cattle (takes more groceries to keep a mama cow productive). There are still plenty of calving ease Angus bulls out there but don't assume that because a bull is Angus that he is a calving ease bull.

Now, back to the original post. Just because a cow may has "calving ease" genetics doesn't mean that she can handle just any bull she's bred to. Remember in the 70's (for you that are old enough to remember). There were lots of good, easy calving Angus and Hereford cows that were killed by giving birth to HUGE Simmental, Chi, Blonde, and Maine bulls.

So, in summary, most mature Angus cows should be able to calve without problem to SG bulls; just make sure the bull doesn't have shoulders as wide as a garage door and a 120 birth weight.

 

[dun]

Around 78 or 9 we used a Gert on Angus and Angus based (some with Holstein) cows and heifers. Never had a bit of problem other then too much milk in the replacment heifers and the tendency to steal calves. That may all be pretty much attributed to that one bull, but they were dandy calves.

dun

 

[greatgerts]

Have you talked with any breeders? I would shoot for Edenfields at 5-E or George Alexander at Yellow Pines. Both of these breeders have excellent cattle that are moderate in size, and if they can't help you, the definately know someone that can help suit your needs.

 

[PNZMAN]

Have you talked with any breeders? I would shoot for Edenfields at 5-E or George Alexander at Yellow Pines. Both of these breeders have excellent cattle that are moderate in size, and if they can't help you, the definately know someone that can help suit your needs.

hey do you know the edenfields....hilda and greg those are good freinds of mine ....

national grand champion bull two years runnning and high point bull not bad huh ......actually im getting one of their calves i think

 

[jerry27150]

i use gert bulls on my english cross heifers with no problem. gert bulls usually throw a long skinny calf. i have had less trouble with gert bulls than with angus bulls

 

[Sylvanglades]

Around 78 or 9 we used a Gert on Angus and Angus based (some with Holstein) cows and heifers. Never had a bit of problem other then too much milk in the replacment heifers and the tendency to steal calves. That may all be pretty much attributed to that one bull, but they were dandy calves.

dun

I know I'm gonna sound dumb here but what do you mean by "the tendency to steal calves"? Just a wonderin'

 

[dun]

I know I'm gonna sound dumb here but what do you mean by "the tendency to steal calves"? Just a wonderin'

Claiming another cows calf and not allowing the actual mother nurse it. Leads to one very skinny cow with several marginal calves and a bunch of none milking cows getting fat. Not to be mistaken for babysitting where one cow will watch over the calves while the rest of them go off to graze.

dun

 

[Campground Cattle]

angus is a calving ease breed...shouldn't have many problems as long as you pick the right gert bull. usually make a heck of a commercial cross cow

Angus used to be known as the calving ease breed. Over the past 20 years Angus breeders have done a great job of increasing the growth rate in the general population of their breed. However, improving their growth rate has resulted in bigger calves at birth (thus poorer calving ease) and bigger framed cattle (takes more groceries to keep a mama cow productive). There are still plenty of calving ease Angus bulls out there but don't assume that because a bull is Angus that he is a calving ease bull.

Now, back to the original post. Just because a cow may has "calving ease" genetics doesn't mean that she can handle just any bull she's bred to. Remember in the 70's (for you that are old enough to remember). There were lots of good, easy calving Angus and Hereford cows that were killed by giving birth to HUGE Simmental, Chi, Blonde, and Maine bulls.

So, in summary, most mature Angus cows should be able to calve without problem to SG bulls; just make sure the bull doesn't have shoulders as wide as a garage door and a 120 birth weight.

Very well said

 

[PNZMAN]

ok so basically you are saying that now a days you cant really rely on any particular breed for ease of calving correct?

cause last year i lost 4 cows and 5 calves.....terrible i mean i work during the day so i need ease of calving bulls so i dont have that much loosssssss s ever again....

you know by the time i got home hello labor and stuck but i did make the mistake of using a brahman bull on those angus cows

but i am young and new to the cattle industry....thats why im asking for help

you reckon i will be ok with a gert bull.....? then.

thanks again
willie

 

[Rustler9]

You probably don't want to hear this but you can rely on Texas Longhorn for calving ease-been raising them going on eight years now and we never have to pull one. Just sold a two year old bull last night to a local farmer-says he's tired of pulling calves and losing cows and calves. Expect 80% polled calves from a Texas Longhorn x polled (any breed) cross.

Had a funny thing happen a couple of weeks ago-advertized two black Beefmaster x Longhorn cross heifers-got two calls on them, no one came to see them. Waited a few days-advertized the same two black heifers as "weaned black heifers" - got 16 calls on them in all. Sold them the first day the ads came out-the guy who bought them called me and said " I'll take em", had not even seen them. Wish I had 25 more to sell. The point of this little story is that so many people are closed minded about this breed of cattle but once thay actually see what they can do in a commercial herd they change their opinion in many cases.

Anyway, if you're worried about calving difficulties you might consider using a Longhorn bull on your first calvers anyway.

 

[krenwic]

PNZMAN: once again a person like you asked a perfectly logical question and all the strong opinions and biases have made you shy off of anything you knew or thought you knew about the cattle business. Good luck with your cattle this year.

Everyone needs to realize that this message board is here to help people learn, whether you're a novice or an experienced cattleman. Take all of that other "mess' to the local bar or wherever you hang out.

Since my opinion was shot down...somebody please help willie out!

 

[sidney411]

IMO- you can get a hard or easy calving bull out of ANY breed. If your are worried about you cows having difficulties with calving then I would make sure and get a registered bull with a good calving ease epd and low birth weight. Cow/Bull combinations can sneek up on you and throw you a curve ball but picking the right bull within the bredd can make a big difference.

 

[Sylvanglades]

PNZMAN, Sorry to hear about your first time heifers. I am also new to the business and had all first time heifers this spring. I bought them bred already. The little girls pretty much just dropped out but the 2 little bull calves had to be pulled. My husband pulled one but I had to find help for the other as husband was at work. The someone else used a come along and pulled it out from the rear as there was nothing to pull from in the right direction. For a newbie like me, it was pretty horrific but both lived. After that ordeal, I immediately started asking other more experienced ranchers a lot of questions. My uncle buys a proven epd EZ calving Angus bull for all his first time heifers. I raise a different breed that I am really impressed with but would follow my uncle's lead except that I don't have enough first time heifers to justify buying a special bull for them. If I had enough heifers, I could just sell the first calves from the heifers. I found out the best tool to use to pull with though. It's a puller that has a rachet like action that kinda walks them out. I also found a tape put out by an old vet. I found it at the Texas University website. It was $10 and full of info for first time heifers and other difficulties. But the tape and the new puller won't do me or anyone else much good if noone is there when the time comes. If you have enough first time heifers to justify the cost, possibly you could check out the epds on those EZ calving Angus Bulls. My uncle had a whole catalog full of bulls. From listening to my uncle, not all Angus bulls are equal. I'm guessing that there are proven bulls in every breed. From now on, when I buy a bull, I'm going to look at the shape of it's head, shoulders, and hips. I will be watching the forums for information also. If you do want the info on that tape, just let me know and I will look it up for you. Sylvanglades

 

[jerry27150]

used to use some angus bulls on holstein heifers b/c they were supposed to be small birth weight, but it seemed they had bred away from that to bigger cattle, had more trouble than i did with holstein bulls

 

[dun]

used to use some angus bulls on holstein heifers b/c they were supposed to be small birth weight, but it seemed they had bred away from that to bigger cattle, had more trouble than i did with holstein bulls

I heard a lot of the same thing from some of the dairys. Too often some of these folks fgiure if it's black it's angus or they don;t/didn't realize that some of the angus breeders got away from those traits that made their bulls valuable for use on heifers.
You can get some pretty easy calving genetics, but there are some really hard birthing bulls out there too. One neigbor got him self a really great production Holstein bull and even out of cows he's pulling 20-25%. Calves aren;t that big, 90 lbs or there abouts, but they're huge fronted things. But part of the calving problems may be laid at the feet of the cows for just not being built to calve easy.

dun

 

[bward]

I would like to answer the question on using Gert bulls on Angus cows but can't honestly because I don't have any cows with Angus in them. I have used gert bulls on Simmental cows a lot. A Gert Bull who sires 75 pound purebred claves can have a half Simmie calf anywhere from 80 to 135 pounds ( and larger). Sims that have a big calf tend to have a large calf year after year. Althought a gert sired calf does have advantages in shape while being born, the real calving ease comes from the Gert female. Not only does she tend to keep the weight of the calf down much like a Brahmah, She is deeper in the pelvis to accomodate a birthing calf. This is a much overlooked trait in heifer selection for calving ease as far as I am concerned. Its not the width of the pelvis its the DEPTH of the pelvis that is important. You want a long hip and a deep pelvis in your female and a lot of Simmentals do well here. I have seen Angus herds that do have deep pelvises and long hips but also seen just as many with short hips and shallow pelvises. If your herd is like the latter then I would shy away from using a gert bulls as the hybrid vigor is likely to produce larger calves than if you used a purebred Angus.

My opinion only for whatever its worth. ;-)