Round Balers

[Bez]

Interesting argument on what balers can and cannot do.

I have owned green and presently own NH560.

All have at one time or another given me problems. Usually once a DECENT service rep has visited me the problem has been cleared up.

Operation has always played a factor in baling. Watched a neighbour run one of mine and have problems for an hour - then his hired hand got started - he made bales for the rest of the day and had no problems.

Different operator and different style of operation.

I have always said that any modern baler - properly serviced and maintained will do the job.

In my opinion there is so little difference in capability of these balers that I often wonder about the discussions of "colour" capability.

Bez

 

[buckaroo_bif]

just was speaking from my personal experiences bez

 

[dun]

Different operator and different style of operation.

I have always said that any modern baler - properly serviced and maintained will do the job.

Bez

I think the second sentence is the key, but the first is also important. I've used the neighbors JD, no idea waht model, and he and I have no problem. I move a lot slower then he does, but I don;t want to break his equipment on my rough ground. His ex-hired hand and the nieghbor that used to have a custom baling operation spend more time crawling under it and swearing at it then either the owner or I do. My sum total of training was him telling me to straddle the windrow, keep the needles on the bale indicator about even and stop and hit the wrap lever when it beeped. It's got a baleage pickup on it and can gobble up some pretty slurpy wet hay.
Sure is a world different then the old NH square balers that I was used to.

dun

 

[ironpeddler]

Bez,
Most problems with any color baler is due to operator error. The technology of the Vermeer, JD NH and others does work. The question is which MFG has the best technology? It is a proven fact that Vermeer bale are more dense than JD bales and the Vermeer will take hay faster than JD. In fact JD has yet to equal the technology of the 1987 605J balers. In the 1990's on 28 different large farm shows, Vermeer took on all comers and was never beaten. They all baled hay in the same field at the same time and the weighed the bales when they were finished. The Vermeer is the undisputed heavy-weight champion. The competition was so one-sided JD refused to participate in the demonstrations if the bales were going to be weighed. To this day JD will not participate in farm shows that weigh the bales.
JD current technology stems from a Hesston patent that JD had to pay royalties to Hesston for use of their design.

 

[dun]

I don;t know what make the guys uses, but when we were buying hay a couple of years ago the bales were so tight you couldn;t just drive up to them with the spike and pick them up. Had to flip them on end and stab down into them and use the weight of the tractor to get the spike in. Was not fun.

dun

 

[buckaroo_bif]

we sell round bales, when we weighed first cutting it averaged 1956 pounds per bale. we weighed third cutting it weighed 1960. fifth cutting weiged 1987 pounds. all baled with john deere 567 balers.
ironpeddler it sounds to me like your typical salesman hype coming from you i know from my experience of thirty years of putting up hay that john deere can put down a vermeer any day or night. i don;t need a farm show to prove a gol durn thing to me.

how long you been putting up hay kid?

 

[ironpeddler]

buckaroo_bif,
I find it funny that the Vermeer 5'x5' bales out weigh the JD567 6'x5' bale. This was proven in here in TN and in Iowa at the Farm progress Show. Here in TN, A father with a 505 Super I bale was baling in the same field on the same day and time as his son with a JD567 and the 5 bales of each were weighed at the local feed mill. The smaller Vermeer averaged weight was 180LBS more than the larger JD567.
At The Farm Progress Show in Iowa the Vermeer 505 Super I averaged just over 1800 LBS and the JD 6'x5' averaged just over 1600 LBS. Bale weight will vary to the moisture content and condition of the crop being baled.
The Vermeer 605XL and 605M balers average 2500 LBS in dry hay.
I challenge you to prove it. We have JD balers traded in for Vermeer all the time and the former JD customers are amazed how much more capacity the Vermeer balers have than the JD balers.
We farm a 1000 acres and have sold close to 4000 balers. Just find me 10 JD dealers and add all their sales up and they will not even have sold half the balers CCM has sold.

 

[El_Putzo]

Boy, I'd sure like to have some 2500 lb round bales :shock: What kind of hay is that anyway? and what % moisture?

We had a 605E (5x6) Vermeer that we traded in on a NH BR740 (4x5) because we wanted smaller bales. We weighed bales from the Vermeer before we traded and bales from NH when we got it. The NH 4x5 baler will consistently make a 1200 lb bale of Brome hay where the Vermeer would make a 1000-1100 lb bale of brome hay. Granted the Vermeer was much older, but we had the density springs tightened way down. The NH has a hydraulic density control and if we make the bales too heavy, the spear won't go in.

Also the Vermeer was getting hard to start a bale with, especially if the hay was a bit tough. I think because the belts were getting worn.

I'm not attributing all of the success to just being a New Holland. I know much of that was due to newer technology, but I have to admit, we've had nothing but good luck with NH hay equipment. We've owned some JD and some Hesston equipment too, but it always seemed to cause more problems than the NH.

JMO

 

[Campground Cattle]

we sell round bales, when we weighed first cutting it averaged 1956 pounds per bale. we weighed third cutting it weighed 1960. fifth cutting weiged 1987 pounds. all baled with john deere 567 balers.
ironpeddler it sounds to me like your typical salesman hype coming from you i know from my experience of thirty years of putting up hay that john deere can put down a vermeer any day or night. i don;t need a farm show to prove a gol durn thing to me.

how long you been putting up hay kid?

Krone has some pretty kick butt equipment also

http://www.krone-northamerica.com/

 

[Subsoil]

Hey Ironpeddler,

have you sold any of the new Rebel Trailed mowers (non conditioner)? Quite a few guys around here have bought the Vicon trailed mowers and I was wondering if you'd had any customers trying out the Vermeer.

I'd also be interested in knowing how they're priced in comparison to the 3 point mounted mowers.

 

[ironpeddler]

Subsoil,
To tell you the truth we live in the mountains and the smallest pull-type mower is 9'2" and is just too wide for farmers to pull down our roads. We tend to sell disc mower caddies because they pull down the road easier. In Iowa even the county roads are wide and Vermeer does not understand an 8' pull-type is the largest that can be pulled down the roads along the Appalachian MTNs.
Another reason for caddy is you can wear out a disc mower and purchase another one and mount it on the same cart. If you purchase the pull-type non-conditioned mower you will have to rebuild the mower and that will cost more than purchasing the same size 3-point mower. The old 3-point mower usually will be traded in and it will still have some residual value to be applied on the new 3-point mower and lower that out of pocket cost. Pyramid caddies are $2,000.
The Vicon and Vermeer pull-type mowers work well and we are hearing good things about both of them. Our preference is the Vermeer disc mower because of the hex shaft drive. Shaft drive mowers have a 1/3 less moving parts and require less HP per cutting head. The Vermeer TM-700 (9'2") has a market price of around $9,500. The TM800 (10'6") is around $10,500.
When customers start spending over $10,000 for a disc mower only they usually start to consider the Vermeer MC840 (10'6") mower conditioner for $17,000.
Likely I made the water more muddy but I hope I helped you.
Mark Carter

 

[ironpeddler]

Boy, I'd sure like to have some 2500 lb round bales :shock: What kind of hay is that anyway? and what % moisture?

We had a 605E (5x6) Vermeer that we traded in on a NH BR740 (4x5) because we wanted smaller bales. We weighed bales from the Vermeer before we traded and bales from NH when we got it. The NH 4x5 baler will consistently make a 1200 lb bale of Brome hay where the Vermeer would make a 1000-1100 lb bale of brome hay. Granted the Vermeer was much older, but we had the density springs tightened way down. The NH has a hydraulic density control and if we make the bales too heavy, the spear won't go in.

Also the Vermeer was getting hard to start a bale with, especially if the hay was a bit tough. I think because the belts were getting worn.

I'm not attributing all of the success to just being a New Holland. I know much of that was due to newer technology, but I have to admit, we've had nothing but good luck with NH hay equipment. We've owned some JD and some Hesston equipment too, but it always seemed to cause more problems than the NH.

JMO

The 605E model baler was made in 1976-77 and the first open throat Vermeer design. JD did not even have an open throat round baler until 1985. I don't think a 76 Chevy P/U would compare favorable with todays Chevy or Ford model either. Times and balers have changed in last 30 years.
All the Vermeer balers today have hydraulic density control. You do not need a silage special to bale silage bales, every Vermeer baler will bale haylage.
The M baler has Vermeer's latest baler technology in it.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

buckaroo_bif,
I find it funny that the Vermeer 5'x5' bales out weigh the JD567 6'x5' bale. This was proven in here in TN and in Iowa at the Farm progress Show. Here in TN, A father with a 505 Super I bale was baling in the same field on the same day and time as his son with a JD567 and the 5 bales of each were weighed at the local feed mill. The smaller Vermeer averaged weight was 180LBS more than the larger JD567.
At The Farm Progress Show in Iowa the Vermeer 505 Super I averaged just over 1800 LBS and the JD 6'x5' averaged just over 1600 LBS. Bale weight will vary to the moisture content and condition of the crop being baled.
The Vermeer 605XL and 605M balers average 2500 LBS in dry hay.
I challenge you to prove it. We have JD balers traded in for Vermeer all the time and the former JD customers are amazed how much more capacity the Vermeer balers have than the JD balers.
We farm a 1000 acres and have sold close to 4000 balers. Just find me 10 JD dealers and add all their sales up and they will not even have sold half the balers CCM has sold.

i really don't need to argue my views with some know it all kid here that is going to Always be right. if you like vermeer in tennessee then fine with me i don't give a rats aess. if you wanna sell the junk then fine with me too. we grow more alfalfa here in alfalfa county oklahoma than anyhwhere in the country. why else would the call us *alfalfa county* i don't know of a single soul that owns a vermeer you can drive by the john deere dealers here and they have used vermeers, they can't sell em but they got em. john deere equipment has been tried and proven by Me to outperform outlast and best of all, THEY WRAP THE GOL DURN BALE evertime. can't say that about vermeer. you brag on the feeding capacity but what good does that do if the baler won't handle it and it plugs? i have Never Ever plugged a 567 baler in alfalfa. we have a 4990 swather with a 990 rotary header i have Never Ever plugged it in anything not even 10 foot tall feed at cutting speeds of 10 mph. so it's pointless to talk about this anymore i mean Anyone knows that next to an attorney or politician a salesman is the least veracious man in the world. push your junk in tennesse kid you got nothing to prove to me.
bif

 

[ironpeddler]

buckaroo_bif,
You really ought to get off the farm more. There is an exciting world outside of alfalfa county OK. I've personally contacted and visited close to 2000 dealerships of every color all over the USA. Farming is not the same across the USA. The crops vary with the soil and rainfall. I even know they grow peanuts in 3 counties in OK. I've been to farm shows in Miami,OK. We own 9 JD tractors and one brand new McCormick tractor. I even lived on an Navaho reservation back in the 1970's for a while.
I sure wished you Sooners would have whipped those USC Trojans but Bobby Stoops needs to have Steve Spurrier call the plays for him.
You are not taming this bronco and I can see the Green blood is deep inside of you but there is plenty of room between TN and OK so we can still have allot of range to roam and not get in each other's way.
Ride-M Cowboy

 

[farmguy]

Buckaroo As I stated we have a 2002 Vermeer and have done 2000 bales with no problems. But the reason I'm asking is a neighbor has an old 500 JD and a 410 JD and has lots of problems. He is impressed with our baler and wants to go with Vermeer but you mentioned problems with a Vermeer. What Vermeer balers have you used? The reason I'm asking is he wants to sell/trade his JDs off and get a Vermeer. But he has limited funds. So he wants to get a good baler with no design problems. So how new must he go to avoid problems, maybe Ironpeddler can help here too. This young man is a very close friend to our son and spent half his childhood with us so I want to help him. I could care less about JD or who sells what, I'm just trying to help a young farmer. Thanks in advance, Farmguy.

 

[ironpeddler]

farmguy,
Your neighbor has JD first attempt at a round baler and they are closed throat. You has to be in perfect condition and raked uniformly or you might as well stay at the house to get these balers to bale hay. The JD 430 & 530 were the first JD balers that were a top notch baler. You can not really compare your neighbors balers to any open throat balers of any color. You friend has a bunch of good choices. First what size tractors does your neighbor have. His current balers do not demand much HP and some of the later models will require some more HP. Used balers are like this 10-20 year old balers bring from $2500-$7,000. 5-10 year old balers bring from $5,000-15,000. This is very general but size of the baler, it's condition, age, & the area where you are located can have allot to do with the value of a used baler.
Large 605 balers loose their value in the Southeast very quickly. Likely in MN it will be the other way around. Smaller balers may be in less demand. Just remember that a large baler in the southeast will have less bales on it than in the Mid-West where commercial operators turn the crank. We see good used balers of every color. If your neighbor finds a good deal he need to purchase it if it fits his operation. You are welcome to call us and ask our opinion if you think you have found a good deal.

 

[farmguy]

Thanks Ironpeddler. I hoped that Buckaroo would respond to tell me which balers he used that he had so much trouble with. To me a froum like this is about helping each other, not insulting each other.

 

[ironpeddler]

I hear old wives tales about different equipment brands all the time. When a company starts a technology then everyone else is playing catch up. Since we started with a Vermeer baler from day one even when Vermeer had only one prototype baler in 1971. In a short period of time Vermeer improved from their first balers but still the first balers would bale hay. New Holland went to a belt baler in 1992 and incorporated expired Vermeer patents into their belt balers. If you look close the current New Holland round balers work just like the Vermeer F Series balers with the bottom drum turning the bale. Yes the current NH balers are advanced beyond the Vermeer F Series but so has Vermeer since the F appeared in 1978. You can still take a 1988 Vermeer J model baler and exceed any other color baler out there in density and bale weight. What the old timers want to do is take the 1978 Vermeer technology and compare it to the current balers. Many of those 1978 model balers are still baling hay today.
In 1974 a Vermeer baler cost $4,000 so did a 4 wheel drive Chevy pickup truck. Many of those closed throat baler were traded as the technology progressed and others purchased the used machines. Just as mentioned in this thread a 605E baler 30 years old was brought up. Lets race the 30 year old winning technology at Indy and see if will make the field. It will not. The fact of the matter Hesston and Vermeer have most of the early patents on round balers. The current Deere baler is modeled after the Vertical chamber bale Hesston developed. Just like any manufacturer some dealers are better than others. A strong dealer can sell today's baler technology of any of the balers mentioned and keep the baler running for the customer satisfied. If someone lives in New Holland, PA. likely they will consider a NH baler first, this is just how people tend to react in the market. I go to 6-10 major farm shows a year around the world and see the latest and greatest the world has to offer. All the USA MFG's make a baler that will work. In the end it comes down to a servicing dealer that makes the most difference in their own market.

 

[Crowderfarms]

I've seen all the brands at work, and I've heard all of em' get cussed a time or two or more...Just boils down to personal preference, and who nearby can fix them when you have a breakdown. Lot like buying a new pick up. Who can stand behind you after the sale. Got a good friend that's had two New Hollands burn on him, and guess what? Still has an NH. Talk is cheap you want performance and reliability. No Matter who manufactured it.

 

[eric]

Ironpeddler, when you first joined these boards, I was disappointed that Macon let you push your products in these forums instead of the classified section. But, after reading your posts, I find that you are very knowledgable about the products you sell, help many folks out when ever possible, and explain the whys and wheres about why folks should consider your machines over others. Since I have no loyalty to any particular brand and could care less what my neighbors think, (re: me buying Kubota when everyone else drives a JD), I find your product reviews helpful. Please keep them coming! And, you are able to do this without the constant mudslinging match that some guys are trying to get you into.