Rotational Grazing

[cjk]

I plan to start impementing a rotational grazing managment this spring, with more animals added as forages begin to strengthen and water sources can be added.

Currently I am going to start with 25 AU and roughly 25 acres I will be spitting up with polywire and some sort of portable water to move between paddock. I think I can start with either 1 ac moved daily,or 2-3 ac moved in 2-3 days respectively. This will provide about 2-3 weeks between regrazing. If I need longer, I have about 40 acres that will not be rotational grazed this year due to time constraints and wanting to see how this all goes.

All of the acreage is irrigated (flood), so I think the 15-20 day rest period should be adequate?

Also for informational purposes, I have 80 acres of winter wheat that we will hay in July/Aug and then graze the stubble. (this will give a couple of weeks of rest for the grass as well, and hopefully get some rain then also)

WIll a solar charger be adequate for what I am proposing to gaze at one time?

Any ideas on what I am forgetting? Any help would be appreciated. I am SE Oregon if that is useful to any responses.

Thanks

 

[agmantoo]

cjk
To maximize the carrying capacity and to better utilize your forage you need to make the paddocks smaller for the initial 25 AUs. Currently I am allocating ~36000 sq ft per day for 92 cows and roughly 50 calves of various ages. The herd is having a hard time properly grazing the area and are wasting forage.
Lowes Home Improvement sells through their internet sales some pigtail posts that are $1.78 here. The same posts sell elsewhere for over $3 each. These posts are the best I have tried and I have been through most. The post is a roughly 1/4 inch diameter galvanized rod that that a foot press design with the curl in the rod at the top and a plastic covering of the curl for an insulator. I sent another person to buy the same posts and the sales person told him they did not sell the posts so take that into consideration and insist they locate the posts on the computer.

 

[regolith]

you need to make the paddocks smaller for the initial 25 AUs.

In that case, use a temporary reel with polywire - 1 ac paddocks is already pretty small, and you want to retain the ability to maneuver a truck or tractor in the area without taking down your 'semi-permanent' fences.

Under our conditions (NZ, dairy) 30 paddocks or multiples of 30 is close to ideal. The rotation length required varies according to the time of year, but a large portion of the spring and autumn is on a 30 day rotation, down to 15 - 20 days in the late spring, out to 45 in late autumn then 60, 90 through the winter - it nearly always multiplies or divides quite nicely by 30.
Solar chargers are sold to plenty of large operations - should be able to handle yours no problem.

Get local advice if you can.

 

[cjk]

We don't have a Lowe's here, but we do have a Home Depot. A guy can get the Poly step in posts for around $1.56 or so. Is there a severe disadvantage to having poly vs metal? It seems like the ability to run multiple wires (especially the first year until the cows get accustom to a hot wire) would be a plus. A guy wouldn't always have to do so, but would have the option.

How detrimental to regrowth is back grazing? I was thinking about the 250-300ft wide idea, with a front and back wire. However, water is going to be a challenge. I thought if I split a 1,000 tank at the head of the field (between two "paddocks"), and then had the back wire be the perimeter wire with an adjustable lead wire for each run. This would mean the cows would come back through the recently grazed peice(s) to get water, but initially it would be feasible.

Thanks for the tips and I hope this works. I currently custom all the hay done, but if this works I would hope to cut the hay acres in half or less by adding more acres into the rotation.

About finding someone local that does to learn from; well there really isn't anyone who does this. I am looking to be the laughing stock of the area, but if it works, I plan to be so far ahead of everyone, that I may be the only one laughing.

How feasible is it to have year round grazing at 4200 ft with only maybe 7 months of growing? I can see if a guy could manage to only come across a piece once a year, maybe once every 9-10 months, but this could take years to get the forage base up to snuff and the infastructure in place. Just curious. Some winters we don't see bare ground for 2-3 weeks, but if there was enough stockpiled underneath, they may just go after it?

 

[regolith]

In my experience leaving a grazed area open for the cows to access for longer than 48 hours knocks back the regrowth. In practice I try to limit access to 4 - 5 days (in winter, when the cows are on a smaller area) - because of the water thing. Another way of getting round that is to have the front and back temporary fences, with the back fence down for about four - five hours after shifting so that the stock can access water, then lock them away again till next day.
I've used portable troughs, but they can be fiddly to handle, heavy, prone to overflowing.

change your google page to google.co.nz and do some exploring - dairynz.co.nz might be a good resource. I can't say if what works here will work there though.

How feasible is it to have year round grazing at 4200 ft with only maybe 7 months of growing?

It wouldn't work for us because quality is paramount. Might work for you. The key to winter grazing is to avoid soil damage, we use on/off grazing when it's very wet or you can spread the cows over a bigger area to reduce damage. The aim in maximising growth in a rotational grazing system is to graze the plant at the 3-leaf stage - when the third leaf is there and before the fourth dies (rye-grass). Left any longer than that, net growth is reduced because leaves are dying at the same time as new ones are being produced.
When we stock-pile pasture for winter quality is sacrificed in favour of quantity and the cows grazing it are dry.

 

[agmantoo]

I rotate every 24 hours. I also do the front and back partitioning with the polytwine as regolith stated. My growing season, nearly 10 months long with cold season grasses, is much longer than yours and I maximize what is available. Conventional producers here do good to get 8 months grazing. I plan on feeding stockpiled fescue for 90 days. The farm is rolling hills with a few low places. The low wetter places are grazed extensively in the Summer and only in dry weather during the wet Winter period. As for the pigtail posts with the metal shaft that is the only thing I would buy. The poly shaft posts will break when you attempt to push them into the ground when the ground is frozen or very dry. Do not mine those that ridicule you for your efforts for going non conventional. You will still be in business when they fold. If I only cleared what the extension agent tells me that the average NC producer makes I would find a hobby and cease the cattle business. Hang with the project and you will be pleasantly surprised of the benefits that surface.

 

[agmantoo]

regolith
I am curious as to what the rule of thumb is for how much land is required to support a mature cow and her calf for one year in your area? Thanks

 

[regolith]

I'm not running a cow/calf operation and would have to admit I don't know exactly. In the UK it used to be one plus followers (1 cow, calf and yearling) for every acre and I would expect North Island, NZ to be able to carry slightly higher numbers due to the longer growing season.
Dairy farms are run at about 2.5 - 3.5 cows/ha on all grass systems, but production per cow is much lower than in the US. We defer grass for winter, and reduce feed demand by destocking in autumn and by timing lactation to the grass growth curve.

 

[cjk]

I'll try to keep my questions short and too the point, but as some of you others on this board have practical experience in these methods, I am looking for advice getting things set up, with my known future improvements:

1. Currently all my pasture is flood irrigated. However, the people we purchased the land from split off the direct canal access, and getting water to the correct flood ditch (when it needs to be there) is challenging to say the least. My plan in the next 12 months is to switch the pastures from wild flood irrigation to controlled sprinkler irrigation. I am looking at a K-Line or similar pod irrigation system. This will not only create efficiency of irrigation, but also will allow for more timely application of water when it is needed.

How this relates to rotational grazing and setting up the main infastructure of the system is the width between parrallel HT lines. With an 8 day irrigation rotation with these systems, the width would need to be around 200+/- ft. I see some on here, Agman in particular, advocates around 300'. ( I see the difference where he does not have irrigation system to design around, so maybe the reduction from 300' to 200' wouldn't make too much difference, so long as the lead and back wire were adjusted accordingly?)


2. The next challenge is that I already have some interior fences on the property, that coincide with the flood ditches. Although it would be nice to rip them out and put everything how it should be from the start, we are being cut short of water this year and a free grazing system will not put my pasture past the 1st of august, unless I can rotate them intensively and hit the first of the rotation around that time. Hopefully that will give me an additional 30 days + what I am able to stockpile on the back 40 that I will hopefully use very sparingly until they shut off the water. So, how difficult is it to set up the HT wire for the season and then move the majority of it next spring, or this fall depending on how the weather plays out? It will also need to be fine tuned once the pod irrigation is in place, so the permanent lines run in between risers.

3. Can a doubled up T-post serve as an end post on the HT wire for this season. It would be much easier to put these in and then tear them up in the fall when the exact location of the risers is determined? I built a perimeter fence on my dad's place that had only 2 sets of doubled up T-posts for corner braces, pulling off the inside post that is tied at ground level to the corner post. (I was actually very surprised the amount of pull this could take)

4. Then the lanes and watering. I have figured that I can work with 10' lanes that have water at the North end (this doesn't mean much without pictures, but god help me if I can figure out how to get those on here) I would have some paddocks that the waterer could be as far away as 925', but there is a high likelihood that a flood ditch on the south end of the run would have water feeding the sump at the same time. So I may not be beyond 800'. Time will tell on that. I guess the question in here is, is 10' wide enough for the lanes?

5. About getting water where it needs to go. I have read Agman with regards to running PVC or other supply lines above ground, but do you think it would work for the first year? I just don't have the time to bury it all this spring, on top of the high likelihood that I will be moving the lanes and permanent interior lines in the fall.

Additionally, the cost. I have all of the polywire I need. Agman has pointed me in the direction of the pigtails, what is the choice for the line posts. Again, I would want to be able move these without too much trouble this fall, but I am looking to get this program started soon.

If there is anything that I have missed, let me know. Especially with regards to working with HT wire. I have never touched the stuff before, so I don't know what I am in for.

Thanks

 

[cjk]

One other question about line posts. If a guy can get the pig tail posts for under $2, can you use these for line posts? In the same fasion of somehow lifting up the wire for cattle to enter lane for water? I realize you wouldn't be able to slip the riser over a post for stability, but the line posts I have found are near $5/ea. That right there is a lot of $$.

I am not quite sure how to get the wire riser support to stay upright with out going over a line post securely pounded in the ground.

Any suggestions?

 

[agmantoo]

I'll try to keep my questions short and too the point, but as some of you others on this board have practical experience in these methods, I am looking for advice getting things set up, with my known future improvements:

1. Currently all my pasture is flood irrigated. However, the people we purchased the land from split off the direct canal access, and getting water to the correct flood ditch (when it needs to be there) is challenging to say the least. My plan in the next 12 months is to switch the pastures from wild flood irrigation to controlled sprinkler irrigation. I am looking at a K-Line or similar pod irrigation system. This will not only create efficiency of irrigation, but also will allow for more timely application of water when it is needed.

How this relates to rotational grazing and setting up the main infastructure of the system is the width between parrallel HT lines. With an 8 day irrigation rotation with these systems, the width would need to be around 200+/- ft. I see some on here, Agman in particular, advocates around 300'. ( I see the difference where he does not have irrigation system to design around, so maybe the reduction from 300' to 200' wouldn't make too much difference, so long as the lead and back wire were adjusted accordingly?)


The 300' best suits my setup, 200' will work also. I am embarrassed to acknowledge how much wire I have put up then taken down. You are best served by trying what you think will work for you before going with permanent fencing other that perimeter.

2. The next challenge is that I already have some interior fences on the property, that coincide with the flood ditches. Although it would be nice to rip them out and put everything how it should be from the start, we are being cut short of water this year and a free grazing system will not put my pasture past the 1st of august, unless I can rotate them intensively and hit the first of the rotation around that time. Hopefully that will give me an additional 30 days + what I am able to stockpile on the back 40 that I will hopefully use very sparingly until they shut off the water. So, how difficult is it to set up the HT wire for the season and then move the majority of it next spring, or this fall depending on how the weather plays out? It will also need to be fine tuned once the pod irrigation is in place, so the permanent lines run in between risers.

If you will put strong end wooden posts end you can pull a single strand HT partition wire a long distance ( 800 to 1000 ft) and have minimal line posts between at 40 to 60 ft apart. I would use the fiber glass PVC posts as they will last and be reusable. Remember you do not have to buy an insulator with these posts and they will not short. When you take down the HT wire use one to the big cable reels that cable tv installers surplus. Stick a pipe through the center hole of the reel and you can wind the wire for reusing.

3. Can a doubled up T-post serve as an end post on the HT wire for this season. It would be much easier to put these in and then tear them up in the fall when the exact location of the risers is determined? I built a perimeter fence on my dad's place that had only 2 sets of doubled up T-posts for corner braces, pulling off the inside post that is tied at ground level to the corner post. (I was actually very surprised the amount of pull this could take)

I cannot answer this as I do not use tee post with electrical fences.

4. Then the lanes and watering. I have figured that I can work with 10' lanes that have water at the North end (this doesn't mean much without pictures, but god help me if I can figure out how to get those on here) I would have some paddocks that the waterer could be as far away as 925', but there is a high likelihood that a flood ditch on the south end of the run would have water feeding the sump at the same time. So I may not be beyond 800'. Time will tell on that. I guess the question in here is, is 10' wide enough for the lanes?


IMO that is too narrow. How are you going to get a drag harrow down the lane? The cattle will make paths that may get worked very deep in the soil as they will probably travel a single path. I have a problem with paths already on wide lanes.


5. About getting water where it needs to go. I have read Agman with regards to running PVC or other supply lines above ground, but do you think it would work for the first year? I just don't have the time to bury it all this spring, on top of the high likelihood that I will be moving the lanes and permanent interior lines in the fall.

Strategically study the placement of the waterers. I managed to hold my travel distance to 800 with planning. Look at this
------800ft------Waterer#1-------1600ft-------Waterer#2-------16000ft--------Waterer#3------800. If an animal is traveling from
Waterer#1 toward Waterer#2 it can be restricted to returning to Waterer#1 at 800ft. If this same animal is at the center point of Waterer #1 and Waterer#2 it can be restricted to going either direction and still will be traveling no more than 800ft. Three waterers placed in this manner can cover 4800 linear feet and yes if it is in the back of the paddock it will exceed the 800ft but everything in the world is not perfect but we will assume it is eating near the lane when it decides to go drink.

Additionally, the cost. I have all of the polywire I need. Agman has pointed me in the direction of the pigtails, what is the choice for the line posts. Again, I would want to be able move these without too much trouble this fall, but I am looking to get this program started soon.

You will be moving the pigtail posts frequently and they are no problem to extract.
With the HT wire it is absolutely imperative to use a lazy susan payout tool for unrolling the wire.

If there is anything that I have missed, let me know. Especially with regards to working with HT wire. I have never touched the stuff before, so I don't know what I am in for.

Thanks

 

[cjk]

Any suggestions on a source for the fiberglass/pvc line posts? What about using the pig tail posts or the 3/8 fiberglass posts for line posts. Again, this would make it difficult to lift the wire up to allow access to the lane and for moving from one side of the lane to the other?

The reason I ask about using t-posts for ends is that I have a whole pile of them laying around, and no wooden posts. Besides, I can pound them in in less than a minute where I want them to be and don't have to dig or auger a hole for the wooden post. It was just a thought. I think a guy could get them to be as strong, or stronger of a pull at 35" off the ground than a wooden post standing solo. It seems that you could tie off to them similar to a wood post with a donut fiberglass insulator. Just thinking.

 

[agmantoo]

I have not used these posts but I think they will work. You will have to drill the hole however.
http://www.powerflexfence.com/products- ... flex-post/

Go ahead and try the tee posts. Trying different things is essential and that is how we progress.

 

[regolith]

Don't try running water lines across the ground if you're in an area that gets heavy frosts - there's a few exposed lines on this farm, and we get maybe a month's worth of frosts a year, mostly mild ones.
Otherwise, you can get away with it, they just don't last so many years if they're above ground rather than buried.

As Agman said - you can run a fair length of high tensile between two wooden posts, with just T's or pigtails in between (I haven't used fiberglass). If you're planning having a decent tension on the wire, I'd be tempted to put a strong post either end rather than relying on just the T-posts.
If you try it, let us know how it works.

I'm thinking those lengths of PVC pipe could surely be adapted to slip over a pigtail post. What about using the 50mm (that's the size I use for effluent, there's heaps of it lying around because it eventually wears out) for the height of a pigtail standard, then the smaller gauge pipe slipped inside with a nail or two to hold it.

 

[agmantoo]

cjk

Use the tee posts for the line posts until you become convinced this rotational grazing is what you want to do. Just realize that some of the issues that arise could be with the tee posts. The PVC pipe for the "gate" will fit over the tee posts. You will have to figure out how to get the HT wire out of the insulator in order to raise the wire. These insulators should work http://www.kencove.com/fence/T+Post+Ins ... il_ITE.php I suggest putting the HT wire on the outside of the tee posts so that the polywire is pulling the HT wire to the post holding the insulator on rather than pulling on the mounting tabs of the insulator.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I have not used these posts but I think they will work. You will have to drill the hole however.
http://www.powerflexfence.com/products- ... flex-post/

Go ahead and try the tee posts. Trying different things is essential and that is how we progress.

The powerflex are good post probably the best you can buy

 

[cjk]

How much charge do those bungy gates, or the spring gates carry. Would they be sufficient to carry the charge through the parallel permanent HT lines?

 

[dun]

How much charge do those bungy gates, or the spring gates carry. Would they be sufficient to carry the charge through the parallel permanent HT lines?

Not really I dont; think. I use an insulated wire buried under the gates then the bungy for just the gate itself.

 

[regolith]

same as Dun... I don't know if they cause any voltage drop, but sooner or later if you're using the gates as connectors you'll discover that killing the fence when the gate is open can be disastrous. It's not usually the first thing you're thinking of when you open a gate and leave it open.

My last farm had lots of spring gates when I arrived. The cows systematically wrecked every single one of them. I replaced them with tape gates - they don't last forever, but they're simple to make, simple to fix and apart from chewing them if they're left lying on the ground, the cows don't seem to bother them. Just to be perverse, I avoid the spring-loaded handles too, just make my own and use the natural stretch of the tape. Dealing with a 'sprung' handle when you're in a hurry and need to shut that gate again is no fun.
I've been intrigued by the bungy gates, but never seen any in action.

 

[dun]

I've been intrigued by the bungy gates, but never seen any in action.

I use the bungy gates in problem a half dozen or so places. I use them in spots that are usually open excpet when the cows are there. I have and insulated handle at one end and a conductor handle at the other.