RFIDs vs Eartags

[City Guy]

I hear some tales of lost and unreadable ear tags I am wondering if, in the long run, would RFIDs be a better bet? I know they are more $$ and need reader and an interface with a comport based record system and probable are not practical for smaller operations. Most everyone has a computer and I suspect most producers have some kind of record system installed. After the initial expense of the tags and readers it might be the way to go.
From the pics I've seem they are smaller and seem less likely to get caught on something. Are they reusable? How difficult to remove? Any other thoughts?

 

[creekdrive]

CCIA RFID tags are mandatory in Alberta and I believe, but could be wrong, in most other provinces in Canada. They are smaller, but we seem to lose more buttons than regular tag. Have had them fall out with no tear as well. You can not reuse them. Simple enough to remove - just snip them off with a pair of sidecutters.

If they were not mandatory we would not use them. We don't have a reader for them - just keep track of which button went in which calf. If the animal is in the headgate the number is also stamped on them so you can still use it to identify which animal it is if needed, but if a person were just thinking of using them as a backup for a lost ear tag - I think the metal clips like this are a better option:
http://www.ketchum.ca/products/livestoc ... -ear-tags/
There is no electronic reader for these but I have never seen one fall out.

 

[angus9259]

RFID tags are mandatory for any animal sold in Michigan. I don't put them in unless I'm selling them though. The only way they are helpful is getting them in a headgate and, as mentioned, fall out pretty easy.

I use engravable tags which won't become unreadable but still tend to fall out then I freeze brand knowing they will eventuall fall or tear out.

 

[ez14]

RFID tags are mandatory for any animal sold in Michigan. I don't put them in unless I'm selling them though. The only way they are helpful is getting them in a headgate and, as mentioned, fall out pretty easy.

I use engravable tags which won't become unreadable but still tend to fall out then I freeze brand knowing they will eventuall fall or tear out.

:frowns: :nod: thats what everybody that i know does

 

[Anonymous]

not a lot use them in these parts but most people i know are total registerd an have tatos or total comercial and they dont do any , just fill out the paper work

 

[farmerjan]

I'm afraid that RFID tags are eventually the way it is going to be and my opinion is that sooner or later they will be another way for the govt to tax us. Do you know that they were trying to get all the small poultry breeders to use them???? On each bird...What about a chicken that the fox or coyotes get / Nightmare city so for now it was put on hold. All dairy breed animals have to have an eartag recognized by the states so that they can track the animal; this is supposed to be for traceability in case of disease. Please explain to me how they can trace an animal back to the original owner and blame them for a disesed animal when there were 4 owners inbetween???? Most dairy farmers tag their heifers at birth, so they just get an extra box of the metal tags from the vet to put in the bull calves ears. Any replacement cows we buy at the sale have a button in the ear I believe it is any beef animal that is of breeding age but I haven't kept up with it. So far we do not have to tag any feeder animals sold unless they are of dairy origin. Most of the registered dairy farmers use the RFID that holstein assoc puts out and it becomes their registration number also. I know several grade dairy farmers that just tag them when they go to market.
The ketchum tags do come out occasionally and often the dairy cows get them caught and tear the ear and lose them but not as bad as the simple plastic tags that we use with numbers. Have some batches that fade quickly and some that are still readable after 6-8 years. When we preg ck and vaccinate, we will rewrite the number on the tag if need be. We tag both ears now since we handle the cattle at least once a year if they lose one tag we can just retag them when they go through the chute. Used to only use one tag but 2 works alot better.
We also bangs vaccinate all heifers kept for breeding so they have an ear notch and a tatoo.

 

[Rafter S]

I use ear tags because they're easy to read, and brand because it won't get lost. Kind of like wearing a belt and suspenders.

 

[dun]

Other than cost and inconvenience of having tp put them in the ear, the major drawback is the proximity they have to be to the reader to be able to be read

 

[Nesikep]

Creekdrive, They are mandatory at sale all across canada. I see them as another way to lose $3 per animal. I tag every one at birth, haven't had any of them fall out except for one cow that always has her head through the fence and inevitably hangs it up on the barbed wire at some point... rest of them have had their buttons for 8 years or so.. Tags never stay in that long, or at least not legibly. By the time the tag fades I know them pretty well, I don't have that many cows though.

 

[cbcr]

840 numbers was supposed to be implemented in 2015, but it still has not been very well received. Our registries as well as some of the others that we have visited with have not made the 840 number mandatory as we are still assigning registration numbers. While many use the 840 numbers not all are RFID tags. There are two different RFID tags, a Full-Duplex and a Half-Duplex. Dairies primarily use the Half-Duplex tags (which are white), beef owners use these white Half-Duplex tags as well because these tags work with electronic feeders and other monitoring systems.

We have some that order the RFID tags with a management number on the button, then they order 2 custom tags for each ear with the animals ID number that matches the number on the RFID along with the dams number, date of birth and the sires name ( some order one tag with the name and the other with the bulls NAAB code). Some order the RFID and a second tag as a set with the management number printed on the tag and then order a custom tag.

While Canada, (and some Countries) have made RFID tags mandatory for all, in the US some States have made it mandatory as well. Many fairs and shows also require that animals that are exhibited to have an 840 RFID tag.

 

[creekdrive]

Creekdrive, They are mandatory at sale all across canada. I see them as another way to lose $3 per animal. I tag every one at birth, haven't had any of them fall out except for one cow that always has her head through the fence and inevitably hangs it up on the barbed wire at some point... rest of them have had their buttons for 8 years or so.. Tags never stay in that long, or at least not legibly. By the time the tag fades I know them pretty well, I don't have that many cows though.

I thought it was all of canada they made you use them but wasn't 100% sure . Just guessing but I bet that 25% or more of our cows are missing buttons. There is at least 3 calves that have torn there's out already this year.
I agree that they are just a money grab. I also dislike them because I can't put them in myself. Yes, I know, I'm weak. It takes me two hands to squeeze the taggers and both times I've tried I couldn't clamp it fast enough and ended up ripping the ear. Now I just let Blaine do it. I could work them by myself if it wasn't for the buttons.

Do you put the button in the same ear as their tag or the opposite ear? Purebreds we put the button in the same ear kind of up on the top of the ear closer to the head. Those seem to stay better but takes longer per calf to line it up so it's not overlapping there other tag.
We use the metal clips as a backup tag for the purebreds. If they lose a tag we need to know 100% for sure who they are. Almost all of them i can tell you who they are without seeing a tag but better to be safe. The registered ones are tattooed as well. That's another thing I've discovered I don't have enough hand strength to do. They are just barely noticeable.

 

[dun]

Creekdrive, They are mandatory at sale all across canada. I see them as another way to lose $3 per animal. I tag every one at birth, haven't had any of them fall out except for one cow that always has her head through the fence and inevitably hangs it up on the barbed wire at some point... rest of them have had their buttons for 8 years or so.. Tags never stay in that long, or at least not legibly. By the time the tag fades I know them pretty well, I don't have that many cows though.

I thought it was all of canada they made you use them but wasn't 100% sure . Just guessing but I bet that 25% or more of our cows are missing buttons. There is at least 3 calves that have torn there's out already this year.
I agree that they are just a money grab. I also dislike them because I can't put them in myself. Yes, I know, I'm weak. It takes me two hands to squeeze the taggers and both times I've tried I couldn't clamp it fast enough and ended up ripping the ear. Now I just let Blaine do it. I could work them by myself if it wasn't for the buttons.

Do you put the button in the same ear as their tag or the opposite ear? Purebreds we put the button in the same ear kind of up on the top of the ear closer to the head. Those seem to stay better but takes longer per calf to line it up so it's not overlapping there other tag.
We use the metal clips as a backup tag for the purebreds. If they lose a tag we need to know 100% for sure who they are. Almost all of them i can tell you who they are without seeing a tag but better to be safe. The registered ones are tattooed as well. That's another thing I've discovered I don't have enough hand strength to do. They are just barely noticeable.

We tattoo all of the retained heifers registered or not. The registered ones get their individual ID in one ear and the herd ID in the other. The commercial ones just get the individual ID in one ear. If they are blank in one ear we know they are commercial, i.e.e unregistered

 

[Nesikep]

Creekdrive, you may want to look into another brand of plier/tag.. I switched to Ztags because that's what was available, and the plier is easier to operate than the Allflex, it also automatically releases and the pin pivots, so you don't rip ears.

I put the button in the opposite ear now.. When I used the Allflex system, I cut the 'guard nub' off the tag so it was flat, then stacked the button on top of it and had excellent retention that way, but the Z tag buttons are too thick for that to work. Stacking them did require quite a bit of hand strength to apply.
I usually put the tag deep into the ear, and the tag a little further out so it hangs right.. at least I try to.

Here's an example of the stacked button on the tag.. Cow is going on 6 years old

 

[City Guy]

OK, what about freeze brands? Can they be used as individual IDs?

 

[Supa Dexta]

I thought it was all of canada they made you use them but wasn't 100% sure .

Yes country wide - and its coming that you'll have to report each time an animal is transported to another location. Even if its just down the road to another pasture. Its going to be a pain in the a$$, Everyone is going to need a premise identification number, if you don't have one already - which is different then your property ID number and record everything on the CLIA website.

-Sell one to the sale barn/ another person you have to report that it left your property. (so you need to know the barns or new owners ID to fill out the report)
-Sale barn also has to report that it left their property even if its a couple hours later
- Trucker needs bill of lading with all numbers on board each time a cow steps on a trailer - not sure if he has to submit a report though.

Id have to look into if you need to report incoming as well, cause then the guy that bought it would need to report as well - reported 3-4x that day in that case.. I can't recall on the incoming or what the trucker does, was at a meeting on it last spring. NO ONE was happy about it. The office pigs were in their glory telling us about it though.

They say its for health reasons so if there's an 'out break' they know roughly how many cattle are in each area.. I say horse sh1t - they already know that info, they just want to track everything more precisely to ensure they're getting their taxes and check offs.

If you rent pasture you need to get premise ID's for it also, if the owner doesnt have one already.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Oh yeah and forgot to add -

Better start saving for your RFID readers! Unless you wanna be grabbing onto every cow and trying to read their number before you move them!

 

[regolith]

Creekdrive, They are mandatory at sale all across canada. I see them as another way to lose $3 per animal. I tag every one at birth, haven't had any of them fall out except for one cow that always has her head through the fence and inevitably hangs it up on the barbed wire at some point... rest of them have had their buttons for 8 years or so.. Tags never stay in that long, or at least not legibly. By the time the tag fades I know them pretty well, I don't have that many cows though.

I thought it was all of canada they made you use them but wasn't 100% sure . Just guessing but I bet that 25% or more of our cows are missing buttons. There is at least 3 calves that have torn there's out already this year.
I agree that they are just a money grab. I also dislike them because I can't put them in myself. Yes, I know, I'm weak. It takes me two hands to squeeze the taggers and both times I've tried I couldn't clamp it fast enough and ended up ripping the ear. Now I just let Blaine do it. I could work them by myself if it wasn't for the buttons.

Do you put the button in the same ear as their tag or the opposite ear? Purebreds we put the button in the same ear kind of up on the top of the ear closer to the head. Those seem to stay better but takes longer per calf to line it up so it's not overlapping there other tag.
We use the metal clips as a backup tag for the purebreds. If they lose a tag we need to know 100% for sure who they are. Almost all of them i can tell you who they are without seeing a tag but better to be safe. The registered ones are tattooed as well. That's another thing I've discovered I don't have enough hand strength to do. They are just barely noticeable.

I'm using allflex - did my whole herd when I had to re-tag them anyway & the RFID was going to be mandatory within 15 months of that. It was a nightmare in several ways. I had to borrow another set of pliers to get the job done - pin on mine was too loose, was flipping the tag away before piercing the ear. Didn't find out the rest of the nightmare till later, those tags were never registered to the cattle I'd bought them for & we ended up spending an afternoon a few years later scanning every cow in the herd, registering her tag to her birth id and replacing missing tags, in order to comply with the ever-tightening regulations.

These days I only tag calves unless I find one missing on an older animal. Loss rate seems to be about 10% - far too high for the laws, considering that we are not allowed to replace them with a different tag any more, the replacement tag has to be pre-ordered for that specific cow. Calves are easy to tag. Adult cows are not.
The RFID is only there because that's the law. Every cow has a large plastic tag with her management number on when she joins the herd as a heifer, and from calfhood a small plastic tag with her birth id, plus a brass tag because I'm old-fashioned & while any plastic tag can be lost or snipped out in an instant, the brass tags stay put.

We also have to report every movement, and within a certain amount of time - might be 48 hrs or something like that. I don't know if anyone actually does that yet, I certainly don't get right on the computer and start shuffling records as soon as the truck leaves the farm, more of a weekly or monthly that everything gets updated.

 

[regolith]

Oh yeah and forgot to add -

Better start saving for your RFID readers! Unless you wanna be grabbing onto every cow and trying to read their number before you move them!

Put the tag in the right place and you physically cannot read it.
I sure wouldn't want any hairy-eared cattle on the place, I have to look pretty hard as it is just to check the button is still present, immediately before any cow leaves the farm.

 

[creekdrive]

I thought it was all of canada they made you use them but wasn't 100% sure .

Yes country wide - and its coming that you'll have to report each time an animal is transported to another location. Even if its just down the road to another pasture. Its going to be a pain in the a$$, Everyone is going to need a premise identification number, if you don't have one already - which is different then your property ID number and record everything on the CLIA website.

-Sell one to the sale barn/ another person you have to report that it left your property. (so you need to know the barns or new owners ID to fill out the report)
-Sale barn also has to report that it left their property even if its a couple hours later
- Trucker needs bill of lading with all numbers on board each time a cow steps on a trailer - not sure if he has to submit a report though.

Id have to look into if you need to report incoming as well, cause then the guy that bought it would need to report as well - reported 3-4x that day in that case.. I can't recall on the incoming or what the trucker does, was at a meeting on it last spring. NO ONE was happy about it. The office pigs were in their glory telling us about it though.

They say its for health reasons so if there's an 'out break' they know roughly how many cattle are in each area.. I say horse sh1t - they already know that info, they just want to track everything more precisely to ensure they're getting their taxes and check offs.
If you rent pasture you need to get premise ID's for it also, if the owner doesnt have one already.

They are already a pain in the a** don't want to think about it getting worse! I know it's coming though. We already have to have a premise ID in Alberta (currently 1 premise ID covers all your premises - sounds like maybe they are planning on changing that...). We have kept record of which button goes in which calf since they became mandatory so would be able to look it up without a reader if necessary. For selling calves we already have to submit our list of numbers for age verification - although currently you can use a range of numbers, you don't have to exclude the calves that you kept at home from the list. As it is right now if you haul an animal to the auction without a button they will put a new one in for you. Used to be $10 bucks for a cow/calf or $20 for a bull, Just was there the other day and it's now $25 for any animal.

 

[creekdrive]

Creekdrive, you may want to look into another brand of plier/tag.. I switched to Ztags because that's what was available, and the plier is easier to operate than the Allflex, it also automatically releases and the pin pivots, so you don't rip ears.

I put the button in the opposite ear now.. When I used the Allflex system, I cut the 'guard nub' off the tag so it was flat, then stacked the button on top of it and had excellent retention that way, but the Z tag buttons are too thick for that to work. Stacking them did require quite a bit of hand strength to apply.
I usually put the tag deep into the ear, and the tag a little further out so it hangs right.. at least I try to.

Here's an example of the stacked button on the tag.. Cow is going on 6 years old

We use one piece Z tags so can't stack them. And the buttons we get are too fat to stack anyway. Tried our buttons with an Allflex tag just to see if it would work a couple years ago but no they are thicker buttons. Got some heifers from Sask one year and their buttons were almost half as thin as the ones we get. Not sure why the difference....yours in the picture looks like the skinny ones too. We just let the seed plant/feed store that does our age verification deal with it. Tell them how many calves we will have and they do the order and the paperwork and phone us when the buttons are in. Maybe you can request different buttons - have never asked.

We have an Allflex tagger with the pin that flips back, usually works good - unless I'm the one operating it! I have zero hand strength...I think they should make taggers with longer handles for people with small, weak hands!