RFID ear button position (pics)

[SRBeef]

I am experimenting with a 2-piece RFID system, the button with the electronic deal goes in the right ear, the regular visual tag (but with the same 840 number) goes in the left ear.

These were just put in when my vet and I worked the herd last week. I took a picture of a group near a hay feeder and zoomed in on a couple heifers. For you Canadians especially who are used to using these, how far off is my location? I tried to hit between the ribs but not too far in or out. Am I too far out? Will I have retention problems?

Hard to get good help these days...

I have retired my one feed ring with the Z shaped neck bars which I have found to be a source of tag loss. thanks for any feedback. Jim

 

[KNERSIE]

Your heifers are too fat.

 

[SRBeef]

Your heifers are too fat.

Ok. Assuming you are serious, Harley, it is not like they are on a grain diet or supplement. They are just on free choice hay and mineral plus whatever grazing they can find at this time of year. I am feeding them 1.5 year-old hay bales.

Short of calling Weight Watchers, how do I control their weight? I can't be controlling hay as I am only with them once a week or so. This is just the weight they are genetically programmed to be isn't it?

I thought that going into winter (it is supposed to be in single digits (F) tonight or about -14 degrees C) they were supposed to have some reserves on them. ??? These three are bred ( & preg checked) for March calving

Jim

 

[3waycross]

I bet that winter of yours will take care of that. They are pretty fat tho.

 

[shaz]

Is there any real value in RFID tags at this point?

 

[SRBeef]

Is there any real value in RFID tags at this point?

That is a good question. I have three reasons for trying them out now:

1) I am an engineer and in addition to technical curiosity I am obsessed with regularly weighing my cattle - all of them. I have a scale head and wand reader that should make that much faster and easier to record as they come through the alley and scale on their way back to pasture after coming into the corral for a treat once every week or two. I almost always am working by myself so looking for anything that makes the weigh-ins easier. This setup may eliminate the need for an intermediate Excel spreadsheet to get the data into my Cattlemax computer program. You can see some very interesting things about individual cattle, your pastures, calves etc with regular weight data. I need to make up for not much land with some technology and intensive rotational grazing etc.

2) As I sell most of my production as "natural" freezer beef, I want another way to show my customers that their beef is raised from birth to processor on my farm and "age & source verified". I have a Wisconsin premises ID number and any cattle that are sold at sale barns, etc in the future I am hoping to get a bit of a premium for age and source verified.

3) I see the US herd will be going to age and source verified (as in Canada) in the not too distant future and want to know something about the system.

Jim

 

[dun]

We sold some calves at a weanvac sale last week that we had put RFID tags in. The tags are from the Missouri Quality Systems Assessment (QSA) program. Even being red they were the top dollar calves for their weight. I'm assuming the tags made the difference

 

[SRBeef]

We sold some calves at a weanvac sale last week that we had put RFID tags in. The tags are from the Missouri Quality Systems Assessment (QSA) program. Even being red they were the top dollar calves for their weight. I'm assuming the tags made the difference

Congratulations Dun! That is also what I wanted to hear. I think people are willing to pay for quality but you have to prove it to them. Wean and Vac with records and Age/Source verification is the way of the future for the small producer to sell cattle, it seems to me. jmho.

I'm sure yours were pretty good calves even without the tags!

Jim

 

[randiliana]

Good looking heifers SR!!

Your tags will probably be OK since they are older animals, but it is better to put them a bit deeper into the ear, past the 1/2 way point. This is especially important in baby calves. I find the biggest culprit for tag loss is twine. It gets hooked on the button and cuts through better than a knife. Other than that we rarely lose any tags. We are pretty careful about removing twine, but there is always some that gets missed.

 

[shaz]

Is there any real value in RFID tags at this point?

That is a good question. I have three reasons for trying them out now:

1) I am an engineer and in addition to technical curiosity I am obsessed with regularly weighing my cattle - all of them. I have a scale head and wand reader that should make that much faster and easier to record as they come through the alley and scale on their way back to pasture after coming into the corral for a treat once every week or two. I almost always am working by myself so looking for anything that makes the weigh-ins easier. This setup may eliminate the need for an intermediate Excel spreadsheet to get the data into my Cattlemax computer program. You can see some very interesting things about individual cattle, your pastures, calves etc with regular weight data. I need to make up for not much land with some technology and intensive rotational grazing etc.

2) As I sell most of my production as "natural" freezer beef, I want another way to show my customers that their beef is raised from birth to processor on my farm and "age & source verified". I have a Wisconsin premises ID number and any cattle that are sold at sale barns, etc in the future I am hoping to get a bit of a premium for age and source verified.

3) I see the US herd will be going to age and source verified (as in Canada) in the not too distant future and want to know something about the system.

Jim

I'm an engineer too and I suspected curiosity played a part in your using it. I'll bet some international market would see some value in it but we can't get people to sign on here. I'm reluctant too.
FYI: www.NXP.com has some useful info if you want to study about transponders and antennas.

 

[dun]

I'm an engineer too and I suspected curiosity played a part in your using it. I'll bet some international market would see some value in it but we can't get people to sign on here. I'm reluctant too.
FYI: http://www.NXP.com has some useful info if you want to study about transponders and antennas.

Those that don;t are leaving money on the table. I'm glad they are. The last I heard was that Japan owuld only take age/source verified beef. We've been doing it for 5-6 years.

 

[SRBeef]

Good looking heifers SR!!

Your tags will probably be OK since they are older animals, but it is better to put them a bit deeper into the ear, past the 1/2 way point. This is especially important in baby calves. I find the biggest culprit for tag loss is twine. It gets hooked on the button and cuts through better than a knife. Other than that we rarely lose any tags. We are pretty careful about removing twine, but there is always some that gets missed.

Hi Randi,

I have also had some feedback from others that they should have been placed in closer to the head in the ear....oh well, next spring I will be doing calves in May and will get them in closer as you suggest. I am a stickler on removing all twine, netwrap and plastic wrap from hay bales. Most of my bales now are netwrap and then plastic on top of that. In fact no twine bales this year at all. The plastic wrap keeps most of the snow etc out so the netwrap and plastic both come off fairly easily even in winter weather. I hope these buttons stay in but not a disaster - this is still an experiment. Thank you for the kind words about my heifers, even if they are a bit "fat". I just hope this doesn't mean extra big calves beng born next spring.

Shaz, I am trying to do this experiment on a budget. I found a good deal on a demo Gallagher cable (not bluetooth) wand reader at a farm show so this is what I will be using. HR-1 I think is the model. Here is a picture of it. Seems to work well in my tests so far - once I learned to release the trigger and not hold it down continuously... far less expensive than many others on the market. We'll see how well it works. The static/walk-by antennas are far too expensive for my little experiment, especially since they would have to sit out unprotected in the Wisconsin weather all year around.

Jim

 

[angus9259]

1. Re: the original question - they are further out then I would put them.

2. I only put them into calves I intended to take to the sale - no real value I can see on the farm or breeding stock for the expense. The problem gets complicated if they lose one of the theoretically matching pair.

3. Your heifers are fatter than I would run them (not that you asked).

4. I would take advantage of their obvious feed efficiency by feeding less or lower quality hay and making more money.

5. Nice heifers - you should be pleased.

 

[SRBeef]

1. Re: the original question - they are further out then I would put them.

Thank you. That is the consensus of several opinions I've had from others. Next time closer in.

2. I only put them into calves I intended to take to the sale - no real value I can see on the farm or breeding stock for the expense. The problem gets complicated if they lose one of the theoretically matching pair.

One reason I put them in is to help me through frequent weighins. Wave the wand at them and the scale records the rfid number along with the weight as soon as they step off. This is why they all have them. I figured it was worth $3./head to try it out. We'll see how this works. The critical one is the button. The visual eartag can be replaced with another hand number tag as long as I don't lose the button.

3. Your heifers are fatter than I would run them (not that you asked).

I have not fed them any corn or supplement. Just a good year for grass. Now over year-old hay. I can not feed them daily so I see no way to thin them down. Maybe winter will take care of that.


4. I would take advantage of their obvious feed efficiency by feeding less or lower quality hay and making more money.

see #3. My hay quality is what it is. Good hay but I have my years supply. Looking to buy poorer quality hay right now is not worth the effort to purchase and transport it when I have what I calculate to need for the winter.

5. Nice heifers - you should be pleased.

Thank you for the kind words on the heifers. Yes I am pleased with them. And really looking forward to THEIR calves this coming spring. They seem to be heading in the direction I want to go as I learn the ropes. Jim

 

[angus9259]

Missed the part about the wand/scale deal. That would be handy.

Limited in feed options as you are, I'd probably do the same thing and having other hay hauled in would certainly cut into what you were trying to save. I have multiple types of hay so that's easier for me. Other options might be just letting them in at the hay for one feed a day? Another poster I read on here said something about feeding a bale (2-3 days) till empty and then letting it sit empty for a day? Or maybe if there's any protein in that tub they have switching to a straight mineral tub?

Anyway - certainly off topic - sure would be nice to be able to take advantage of those genetics and pocket some money out of them.

 

[SRBeef]

Missed the part about the wand/scale deal. That would be handy.

Limited in feed options as you are, I'd probably do the same thing and having other hay hauled in would certainly cut into what you were trying to save. I have multiple types of hay so that's easier for me. Other options might be just letting them in at the hay for one feed a day? Another poster I read on here said something about feeding a bale (2-3 days) till empty and then letting it sit empty for a day? Or maybe if there's any protein in that tub they have switching to a straight mineral tub?

Anyway - certainly off topic - sure would be nice to be able to take advantage of those genetics and pocket some money out of them.

I purchase all my hay from one supplier who is a former dairy farmer who now sells hay for a living. He doesn't know how to make lower quality hay! He gets very upset when the weather makes him put up any less than perfect hay as it has done the past 2 years in WI.

As I am not at the farm more than one or two days a week, limiting the hay input is not something I can physically do. I also have a mixed group in this pasture during weaning and I do not want to limit the intake of the steers in with the heifers. The Mineralyx is pretty much a straight Mineral barrel. It does have 6% protein but at 1/2 lb per head per day average consumption I would not think that is a significant factor in their appearance.

I am excited about developing these genetics around a couple 1200-1300 lb, long, low and gentle cows with good calf ww to cow wt at weaning ratios (close to 0.6) and a couple very good calving ease, high growth rate, good marbling, good maternal bulls with some butt to them. I like this picture. Especially the calf on the right with his head in the Mineralyx. We just had a pot roast the other night from his half brother and it was great.

It may take a few years but I see some progress. Thanks again.

Jim

 

[hillsdown]

SR I agree with Randi and then you will have room for your herd ID tag on the same ear and can tattoo the other ear with your reg prefix and animal ID .

 

[shaz]

I purchase all my hay from one supplier who is a former dairy farmer who now sells hay for a living. He doesn't know how to make lower quality hay!

I can show him if he needs a lesson! :roll:

 

[marksmu]

SR - I am really beginning to dislike you.... not actually dislike you, but envy you is more like it. Everything you are actually doing, are the things that I talk about doing....I really like the ID of the RFID tags. As an engineer myself, I have contemplated RFID in my cattle as well. I especially like the tags with locaters in them. Seeing as I dont have many trees on my property I could easily set up a line of sight wireless network that would allow me to remotely verify that all of my cattle were inside my fences, and have moved in the last 24 hours.

I have daydreamed about setting up the electronic pastures and being able to check on the cattle remotely...The most expensive RFID tags (active RFID, not passive) I have seen, had location, temperature of the animal, and outside temperature integrated into the tag.

It would be mighty handy to know all that information from your home when your an hour away from the ranch like we are....I am in the same boat as you...I have a full time day job that pays the bills, and I run the cattle on the weekends in my spare time. I wish I was running cattle full time, but I just have not been able to make it pencil out...yet.

 

[pdfangus]

WHEN i WAS CONSIDERING RFID for our herd I wanted it for the cows.
I never did implement it becasue I never had the money.
I was going to use implants rather than tags.
AVID Id makes an implant. can be put in the back of the ear.
won't come out unless the ear is harmed.
You would be amazed at the number of people who told me that I could not do it the way I wanted.

To me it is the height of stupidity to put a supposedly permanent ID on a tag, which can not be considered permanent.. Not calling any of you stupid but that is what the feeder folks want, "A visual Proof".

I went thru our sixty cow herd one time and counted four cows who still had their original ear tag and none of those was over four years old.

I think it is fine to put the visual proof in feeder calves but it will lead to duplication errors in breeding cattle. cattle will loose tags and have multiple permanent numbers. Not to mention what happens when you start picking up those expensive little buttons and scan them and they still work so you clean em up and reuse them. then you got multiple records with the same unique number.

Our central bull test has been using rfid tags fo a number of years so every bull that came home had one.
I never had a bull that still had his permanent rfid tag after his third birthday.

I think rfid can solve a lot of management problems. I do not think the cattlemen of america are ready to embrace it. I do not think tags are the way to do it for breeding cattle.