I know this has been cussed and discussed, but a week ago I had a cow miscarry at 8 months. the placenta is still there. My vet's always told me to leave it be and, after 3-4 days, give some lute. I gave her lute two days ago and can see she's doing some contracting, but the placenta is still there. How long before taking further action?
retained placenta
- Thread starter angus9259
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If she starts acting "off" would be the time to do something. Also, try not to stand downwind of her!
How low does it hang? Low enough that she or someone else could step on it or get it tangled in brush or anything? If so, hold your nose, put on some gloves and tie it to itself a little above knee high
How low does it hang? Low enough that she or someone else could step on it or get it tangled in brush or anything? If so, hold your nose, put on some gloves and tie it to itself a little above knee high
cow pollinater
Well-known member
You can also arm her like you're trying to pull mucus on a hot cow. Just go in the rectum like you're going to AI her and use your fingers as a rake to pull backwards and get things loosened up. Once you see newer looking placenta hanging out of her vulva, pull your arm out and take a double wrap around your hand and pull gently strait down. DON'T TEAR IT. :nod: Little "pops" as you're pulling gently are normal as the buds that hold the placenta into the uterus break free but if the placenta gets thin or stringy, walk away. You want the weight of the hanging part to help pull the rest out of the cow.
Since it's been a week, antibiotics are in order and a lut shot in about a month will maybe keep her from going to beef if you don't already want her to.
Since it's been a week, antibiotics are in order and a lut shot in about a month will maybe keep her from going to beef if you don't already want her to.
Keren
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If you decide to remove it ... Be careful. I'd never attempt it because i'm scared of the potential for them to bleed out (can't spell the h word), leaving it be and antibiotics has always worked for me ... Just my two cents. Also what do you mean by "going to beef"?
I'm with you on this one. 50 years ago we used to remove them, now even in dairy cows we wait till they slough by themselves and only use antibiotics if she gets sick, which is very rarely.Keren":32y2oiee said:
Here's what the Merck manual says about it:
Cows: Retention of fetal membranes, or retained placenta, usually is defined as failure to expel fetal membranes within 24 hr after parturition. Normally, expulsion occurs within 3-8 hr after calf delivery. The incidence in healthy dairy cows is 5-15%, while the incidence in beef cows is lower. The incidence during lactation is increased by abortion, dystocia, hypocalcemia, twin birth, high environmental temperature, advancing age of the cow, premature birth or induction of parturition, placentitis, and nutritional disturbances.
The precise pathogenesis of retained fetal membranes is poorly understood, but normal maturation and loosening of the placenta begin during late pregnancy and are marked by alterations in the collagen of the placentome. During parturition, changes in uterine pressure, reduction in blood flow, and physical flattening of the placentome during uterine contractions contribute to final loosening and expulsion of the fetal membranes.
Diagnosis is usually straightforward as degenerating, discolored, ultimately fetid membranes are seen hanging from the vulva >24 hr after parturition. Occasionally, the retained membranes may remain within the uterus and not be readily apparent, in which case their presence may be signalled by a foul-smelling discharge. In most cases, there are no signs of systemic illness. When systemic signs are observed, they are related to toxemia. Uncomplicated retention of fetal membranes is unsightly and inconvenient for animal handlers and milkers but generally not directly harmful to the cow. However, cows with retained fetal membranes are at increased risk of developing metritis, ketosis, mastitis, and even abortion in a subsequent pregnancy. Cows that have once had retained fetal membranes are at increased risk of recurrence at a subsequent parturition.
Manual removal of the retained membranes is no longer recommended and is potentially harmful. Trimming of excess tissue that is objectionable to animal handlers and contributes to gross contamination of the genital tract is permissible. Untreated cows expel the membranes in 2-11 days. Routine use of intrauterine antimicrobials has not been found to be beneficial and may be detrimental. Although advocated at various times, oxytocin, estradiol, prostaglandin F2α, and oral calcium preparations have not been shown to hasten expulsion of retained membranes. When systemic signs of illness are present, systemic treatment with antimicrobials and NSAID is indicated. In herds in which incidence of retained fetal membranes is unacceptably high, predisposing causes should be sought and eliminated.
Cows: Retention of fetal membranes, or retained placenta, usually is defined as failure to expel fetal membranes within 24 hr after parturition. Normally, expulsion occurs within 3-8 hr after calf delivery. The incidence in healthy dairy cows is 5-15%, while the incidence in beef cows is lower. The incidence during lactation is increased by abortion, dystocia, hypocalcemia, twin birth, high environmental temperature, advancing age of the cow, premature birth or induction of parturition, placentitis, and nutritional disturbances.
The precise pathogenesis of retained fetal membranes is poorly understood, but normal maturation and loosening of the placenta begin during late pregnancy and are marked by alterations in the collagen of the placentome. During parturition, changes in uterine pressure, reduction in blood flow, and physical flattening of the placentome during uterine contractions contribute to final loosening and expulsion of the fetal membranes.
Diagnosis is usually straightforward as degenerating, discolored, ultimately fetid membranes are seen hanging from the vulva >24 hr after parturition. Occasionally, the retained membranes may remain within the uterus and not be readily apparent, in which case their presence may be signalled by a foul-smelling discharge. In most cases, there are no signs of systemic illness. When systemic signs are observed, they are related to toxemia. Uncomplicated retention of fetal membranes is unsightly and inconvenient for animal handlers and milkers but generally not directly harmful to the cow. However, cows with retained fetal membranes are at increased risk of developing metritis, ketosis, mastitis, and even abortion in a subsequent pregnancy. Cows that have once had retained fetal membranes are at increased risk of recurrence at a subsequent parturition.
Manual removal of the retained membranes is no longer recommended and is potentially harmful. Trimming of excess tissue that is objectionable to animal handlers and contributes to gross contamination of the genital tract is permissible. Untreated cows expel the membranes in 2-11 days. Routine use of intrauterine antimicrobials has not been found to be beneficial and may be detrimental. Although advocated at various times, oxytocin, estradiol, prostaglandin F2α, and oral calcium preparations have not been shown to hasten expulsion of retained membranes. When systemic signs of illness are present, systemic treatment with antimicrobials and NSAID is indicated. In herds in which incidence of retained fetal membranes is unacceptably high, predisposing causes should be sought and eliminated.
hillsdown
Well-known member
angus9259":309a6nbw said:
Give a her a good dose of long acting pen as it won't hurt anything and let her be.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
But, HD,
The long-acting pen won't HELP anything, either. It's a BS drug formulation - yeah, it stays in their system longer than straight procaine pen G - but the benzathine pen fraction - the part that stays longer - NEVER reaches a high enough level in tissue/fluid to kill ANYTHING! And if you dose at the label dosage, you don't get enough procaine pen G in the cow to be effective - and it's all gone after 12 hours, anyway.
I wish they'd pull that crap off the market.
If anyone has ever had 'good results' with long-acting penicillin, it's because the animal was gonna get better anyway.
The long-acting pen won't HELP anything, either. It's a BS drug formulation - yeah, it stays in their system longer than straight procaine pen G - but the benzathine pen fraction - the part that stays longer - NEVER reaches a high enough level in tissue/fluid to kill ANYTHING! And if you dose at the label dosage, you don't get enough procaine pen G in the cow to be effective - and it's all gone after 12 hours, anyway.
I wish they'd pull that crap off the market.
If anyone has ever had 'good results' with long-acting penicillin, it's because the animal was gonna get better anyway.
hillsdown
Well-known member
Lucky_P":1agaib71 said:
I use oxytetracycline for a few things , probably more for my piece of mind than the cattle . Lucky, I thought an LA pen and Oxy are basically the same ,maybe not. :? I have not used pen for many many years. If a cow truly has a retained placenta for more than a week (no visible signs of her even working on passing it) I would infuse her as well as antibiotics and prostaglandin . Not milking cows has limited those cases to O around here .
kenny thomas
Well-known member
Lucky_P":1vdc1in6 said:
:clap: :clap: :clap: I agree. Haven't bought a bottle of pen since I was a teanager, and that was a few years ago. :lol2:
wbvs58
Well-known member
I would only treat the cow with antimicrobials if she was showing signs of illness, off feed, high temp, etc.
People just have itchy trigger fingers on antibiotics and other drugs. Antibiotics are often used in situations to copy what Vets do. In many situations Vets use antibiotics unnecessarily, because they like to be seen to be doing something. It leaves a hollow feeling if you called a Vet out to see this cow and he/she did nothing and they said just leave it.
Penicillin is bactericidal, Tetracycline is bacterostatic ie Penicillin actually kills bacteria, but its spectrum of activity is narrow, however it is still very usefull in the feet eg. Tetracycline slows the multiplication rate of bacteria down relying on an active immune system to deal with the bacteria.
I would not throw Procaine Penicillin away, it can be usefull in the right situation.
Ken
People just have itchy trigger fingers on antibiotics and other drugs. Antibiotics are often used in situations to copy what Vets do. In many situations Vets use antibiotics unnecessarily, because they like to be seen to be doing something. It leaves a hollow feeling if you called a Vet out to see this cow and he/she did nothing and they said just leave it.
Penicillin is bactericidal, Tetracycline is bacterostatic ie Penicillin actually kills bacteria, but its spectrum of activity is narrow, however it is still very usefull in the feet eg. Tetracycline slows the multiplication rate of bacteria down relying on an active immune system to deal with the bacteria.
I would not throw Procaine Penicillin away, it can be usefull in the right situation.
Ken
I talked it over with the cow. She's not made any progress, but says she feels fine so we decided to wait another couple of days. It's so hot, I don't want to work the whole group if I don't have to and add heat stress to the mix. We decided to see what Sunday brings.
Gale Seddon
Well-known member
Curious, what did Sunday bring?
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Ken,
I wouldn't throw procaine pen G away either - it still has some applications, if you use it correctly.
Benzathine penicillin G, on the other hand, is BS; yes, it stays in the animal's system for 48+ hrs - but it never reaches a high enough concentration to kill anything, even if it were susceptible to penicillin - so, any positive effect you might see from treating with the 'long-acting penicillin' formulations is due to the procaine pen G fraction, which is underdosed, if you give the recommended label dosage.
I wouldn't throw procaine pen G away either - it still has some applications, if you use it correctly.
Benzathine penicillin G, on the other hand, is BS; yes, it stays in the animal's system for 48+ hrs - but it never reaches a high enough concentration to kill anything, even if it were susceptible to penicillin - so, any positive effect you might see from treating with the 'long-acting penicillin' formulations is due to the procaine pen G fraction, which is underdosed, if you give the recommended label dosage.
wbvs58
Well-known member
I whole heartedly aggree re the LAP, Lucky.
Ken
Ken
Well . . . . the placenta is gone . . . . what I can see of it anyway. I think the flies might have eaten it. She's still walking with her tail cocked like there's something in the birth canal yet though. Otherwise, she's acting fine. My mobile vet did that eyelid deal for $50 - I'm leaning toward having him come out and give her a sleeve. In the back of my mind, I'm wondering about a twin in there.
TexasBred
Well-known member
She should be good and rotten inside by now.angus9259":we5nsq6b said:
Vet checked her out. She's in good shape. Has a little retained placenta still - she gave her an antibiotic flush - but said her uterus and ovaries were in good shape and recovering nicely. $50 - antibiotic and all! Cheap reassurance.
