Reposting

[3MR]

Walt hard to go wrong with Brangus cattle in East Texas.
If I could run the perfect herd for my area it would be hereford cows with a Brangus bull. Char and Brangus is a hard combination to beat they grow good and sell good with a lot of pounds.

I would have expected it to be the other way round, would have thought brangus cows, hereford bull.

Have you ever dealt with Brangus cows? They come in two models hot and getting hotter. Easier to deal with one.

I have no experience with brangus, but have experience with brahman. I can see your point, thought you needed a bit of ear in your environment.

Where would the biggest advantage be with a bit of brahman influence? In the cowherd or the calves?

In the cowheard. The more you can hide the extra ear in the the calves the less chance you will get docked for it.

 

[forageconverter]

Brandonm2,

Thanks for the informative reply. I guess viewing land as a completely separate investment answers my question better than anything.

I mean I understand the numbers of it all, but I'm not sure one can have a realistic discussion of the economics of a cow/calf operation when the biggest and costliest input, the land, is not charged to the operation itself. I figure the purchase of land as a cost to the operation but at the same time view the land as an acquired asset, one in which the operation is acquiring. I figure profit of the operation by measuring change in net worth. Most all of the profit is attributed to the accumulation of assets, the greatest asset being land, as it actually appreciates.

If the revenue generated by the cow/calf operation is unable to make the payment on all inputs to the operation, then I feel the operation has to be viewed as a non-profitable operation as far as the cattle are concerned.

I guess where land is so valuable that it would be impossible to acquire with cattle, the land should be viewed as the cake, and the cattle should be viewed just as the icing on the cake.

 

[forageconverter]

The trap that most get in is listenig to you are going to make a fortune in cattle.
The national average for profit for a cow is a 100 dollars a year in a well run operation. I don't know about the average herd in the nation T A&M published a paper a few years ago the average herd was 20 head in Texas.
With those numbers you make 2000 dollars profit that was with a 100% calf crop which is not reality 90% is ,so your 2000 dollar profit is now 1230 dollars on 18 cows. They had to pay the upkeep on the two that didn't generate a dime.
Twelve hundred bucks a year is not going to pay the land note the set up cost or the tractor note.
If you want to live the lifestyle and consider the above mentioned cost as getting the life style. You can get old Belle to pay the mantainence if you operate as a cattleman.
You will here your land is appreciating in value not unless you sell it the only thing appreciating is the tax liabilty going up each year.
People say the land is an investment not unless you plan on selling it it is a liabilty to be maintained.
It take's a dollar a day to maintain Old Belle running the operation like a cattleman you can get her to pay the taxes the upkeep on fence, fuel and fertilizer and put a few frog hides in the old billfold.

CB,

Thanks for your earlier reply. By the way, we also utilize year around calving, and wean and sell in a somewhat similar manner to you. When asked when we calve, I tell people we have three calving seasons: Spring; Fall; and in between.


I thought the $100 profit per cow already took in account a 90% calf crop?

Shouldn't the land note, set-up cost, and tractor note at least be partially accounted for before the $100 profit is figured?


I like the idea of your post, 'grass first', and there's been a lot of informative points made throughout the thread; but if one is not charging anything to the cows for the grass, then 'grass first' just as well be 'free feed first'. I just think at a very minimum, if the land is paid for, a producer needs to account for what he could have rented his grass to another producer for. If one's only profit is $100 per cow, and if this is before the acquiring of any assets that would add to his net worth, then I think he could easily rent out his land for more money; or at the very least, he could rent it out for the same money and just sit back and relax if he chose to.

 

[dun]

Since this has become kind of a catch-all cattle discussion, can someone explain to me why 205 days is the magic number? I constantly am reading about calves at the 205 day mark. I figure 205 days = about 6 months and 3 weeks. What makes 205 better than, say 212?

Thanks
Cuz

I read a dela about that very subject a coupe of weeks ago. It seems that BIF came up with that date years ago so that calves could be compared on a more or less even basis. It's also what is used for damms age adjustment. There had to be a standard and that's what they came up with.

 

[Frankie]

I read that the first animals they adjusted happened to be about 205 days old, so that's what they adjusted to. And it's stayed the same ever since.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The trap that most get in is listenig to you are going to make a fortune in cattle.
The national average for profit for a cow is a 100 dollars a year in a well run operation. I don't know about the average herd in the nation T A&M published a paper a few years ago the average herd was 20 head in Texas.
With those numbers you make 2000 dollars profit that was with a 100% calf crop which is not reality 90% is ,so your 2000 dollar profit is now 1230 dollars on 18 cows. They had to pay the upkeep on the two that didn't generate a dime.
Twelve hundred bucks a year is not going to pay the land note the set up cost or the tractor note.
If you want to live the lifestyle and consider the above mentioned cost as getting the life style. You can get old Belle to pay the mantainence if you operate as a cattleman.
You will here your land is appreciating in value not unless you sell it the only thing appreciating is the tax liabilty going up each year.
People say the land is an investment not unless you plan on selling it it is a liabilty to be maintained.
It take's a dollar a day to maintain Old Belle running the operation like a cattleman you can get her to pay the taxes the upkeep on fence, fuel and fertilizer and put a few frog hides in the old billfold.

CB,

Thanks for your earlier reply. By the way, we also utilize year around calving, and wean and sell in a somewhat similar manner to you. When asked when we calve, I tell people we have three calving seasons: Spring; Fall; and in between.


I thought the $100 profit per cow already took in account a 90% calf crop?

Shouldn't the land note, set-up cost, and tractor note at least be partially accounted for before the $100 profit is figured?


I like the idea of your post, 'grass first', and there's been a lot of informative points made throughout the thread; but if one is not charging anything to the cows for the grass, then 'grass first' just as well be 'free feed first'. I just think at a very minimum, if the land is paid for, a producer needs to account for what he could have rented his grass to another producer for. If one's only profit is $100 per cow, and if this is before the acquiring of any assets that would add to his net worth, then I think he could easily rent out his land for more money; or at the very least, he could rent it out for the same money and just sit back and relax if he chose to.

My land has been paid for years by the time I finish scratching out cost I figure this year so far if everthing continues corse I will be a 1.07 a day. Grass cost plenty fertilizer 2-4D taxes, fencing, seed, lime etc. Who are you going to rent the land to no one here as all the old cattlemen are dying off, Heck we don't have any custom balers left. You don't always have a buyer or renter for your land. Again land is a liability and always will be. I love the investment part the best you could take the same money and put in T Bills and be thousands ahead over the years.
I don't see how anyone can make money at this with land payments. Use to here you could buy timberland and cut it and it would cover the cost of the land. Then you could rent a D-8 with a shear blade clear all the remaining stumps and brush. The last time I cleared any I had 27,000 dollars in the dozer fee's not including fencing. I firgued the cost at 180 dollars and acre cows can pay that off. This 4000 dollar an acre land no way

 

[forageconverter]

Who are you going to rent the land to no one here as all the old cattlemen are dying off

That's interesting.

In this area, if just see a 'pasture land for rent' add in a newspaper, you about feel like you have won the lottery. Of course, by the time you do see the add, the land has already been rented,and the guy that ran the add tells you the horror story of a never ending ringing phone.

 

[CUZ]

Thanks Dun and Frankie. I see the advantage of having a common age for comparing calves, and I understand some age had to be chosen, it just seems in this era with epd's and all of the other data collected that someone would have an actual "biological" reason to say "This is the day we should compare calves on" rather than "that's just where it started and so that's the way we do it."

Just my two cents worth
Cuz

 

[Frankie]

Who are you going to rent the land to no one here as all the old cattlemen are dying off

That's interesting.

In this area, if just see a 'pasture land for rent' add in a newspaper, you about feel like you have won the lottery. Of course, by the time you do see the add, the land has already been rented,and the guy that ran the add tells you the horror story of a never ending ringing phone.

Here, too. You never see land for rent in the newspapers. If any becomes available, it's rented by word of mouth. When an older rancher dies, his kids (or neighbors) often pick up the lease.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Who are you going to rent the land to no one here as all the old cattlemen are dying off

That's interesting.

In this area, if just see a 'pasture land for rent' add in a newspaper, you about feel like you have won the lottery. Of course, by the time you do see the add, the land has already been rented,and the guy that ran the add tells you the horror story of a never ending ringing phone.

Here, too. You never see land for rent in the newspapers. If any becomes available, it's rented by word of mouth. When an older rancher dies, his kids (or neighbors) often pick up the lease.

This is timber country here 94% of the county is forest, owned by major corporations or in a National Preserve.