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<blockquote data-quote="Cowboymom" data-source="post: 281130" data-attributes="member: 2278"><p>Very valid points made here. We have been in the horned Hereford business for over 65 years. Besides the original heifers that were purchased to start this herd, we have never added an "outside" female. We do purchase herd bulls. However, we have tried to raise the same kind of cattle for all those years. We didn't go small, we didn't go big. We raise medium framed cattle with good feet and legs, good bone and natural muscling. </p><p></p><p>We have kept records forever, we joined TPR when it first came out and then our extension agent told us he could do the same thing. When we rejoined TPR in 91, we held our breaths waiting for our cow EPD's to be sent. They were surprising good. However, we had one bull whose family had not been reported at all and their numbers were low, it took a couple of generations to get that taken care of. </p><p></p><p>I was told a couple of very good words of wisdom a few years ago. One is, raise the cattle that fit your environment. Another is, EPDs won't help you sell a good bull but they will help you not sell one if his numbers aren't good. </p><p></p><p>We have two different kinds of bulls buyers, ones that look at the EPDs and those that don't. When we look for herd sires, we have had to dismiss some really nice bulls because they didn't have good numbers. We have also seen a lot of junk with great numbers. One thing I learned a long time ago, was to look at the cowherd, that can tell the whole story. If they have a hand full of cows that are kept "special", their calves are going to be the best they will ever be and won't produce anything as good or better than themselves. </p><p></p><p>It is a fine line we all walk, growing out our cattle to their genetic potential, but not burning them out on too much feed. I know one breeder whose bulls are fatter than gords when she sells them, but they don't hold up breeding cows. I have heard the term "hot house flowers" coined more than once. </p><p></p><p>It is all what you are in the business for. If you are in it for a hobby or to win Denver, you handle things one way. If you are in it to put food on your table and a roof over your head, that is a different matter. </p><p></p><p>I don't pretend to completely understand EPDs, one thing I do know is that they change with the wind. When they brought in the Canadians into the Association, they got killed on their BW and milk EPDs. When the poor Polled people came in, they just got killed period. In that period of time, we had a bull go from a 21 on milk, to a 3, back up to a 16. The bull didn't change, the cows didn't change, just the numbers. Kind of like the proverbial "step up to the crap table". </p><p></p><p>We just keep trying to raise the same type of bulls we always have, just keep trying to make them better and better. Now the show ring wants thick, so fat is in. The pendulum just keeps swining back and forth. A breeder has to decide if they are going to breed for their environment and what they have in their head as ideal, or what is the current fad. It is impossible to do both. </p><p></p><p>I have no idea what cattle you are talking about, but we have used some part Canadian bulls and the ones we have used have been great. We bought ones with good bone and natural thickness. Just like women or men, if you put 10 different bulls in a pen, 10 different people will each like a different one. Some people are big on clean fronts and shoulders, some are big on good hips, some are legs and feet. That is why there are so many different cattle breeders in the business and that is why there are so many people married!LOL!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cowboymom, post: 281130, member: 2278"] Very valid points made here. We have been in the horned Hereford business for over 65 years. Besides the original heifers that were purchased to start this herd, we have never added an "outside" female. We do purchase herd bulls. However, we have tried to raise the same kind of cattle for all those years. We didn't go small, we didn't go big. We raise medium framed cattle with good feet and legs, good bone and natural muscling. We have kept records forever, we joined TPR when it first came out and then our extension agent told us he could do the same thing. When we rejoined TPR in 91, we held our breaths waiting for our cow EPD's to be sent. They were surprising good. However, we had one bull whose family had not been reported at all and their numbers were low, it took a couple of generations to get that taken care of. I was told a couple of very good words of wisdom a few years ago. One is, raise the cattle that fit your environment. Another is, EPDs won't help you sell a good bull but they will help you not sell one if his numbers aren't good. We have two different kinds of bulls buyers, ones that look at the EPDs and those that don't. When we look for herd sires, we have had to dismiss some really nice bulls because they didn't have good numbers. We have also seen a lot of junk with great numbers. One thing I learned a long time ago, was to look at the cowherd, that can tell the whole story. If they have a hand full of cows that are kept "special", their calves are going to be the best they will ever be and won't produce anything as good or better than themselves. It is a fine line we all walk, growing out our cattle to their genetic potential, but not burning them out on too much feed. I know one breeder whose bulls are fatter than gords when she sells them, but they don't hold up breeding cows. I have heard the term "hot house flowers" coined more than once. It is all what you are in the business for. If you are in it for a hobby or to win Denver, you handle things one way. If you are in it to put food on your table and a roof over your head, that is a different matter. I don't pretend to completely understand EPDs, one thing I do know is that they change with the wind. When they brought in the Canadians into the Association, they got killed on their BW and milk EPDs. When the poor Polled people came in, they just got killed period. In that period of time, we had a bull go from a 21 on milk, to a 3, back up to a 16. The bull didn't change, the cows didn't change, just the numbers. Kind of like the proverbial "step up to the crap table". We just keep trying to raise the same type of bulls we always have, just keep trying to make them better and better. Now the show ring wants thick, so fat is in. The pendulum just keeps swining back and forth. A breeder has to decide if they are going to breed for their environment and what they have in their head as ideal, or what is the current fad. It is impossible to do both. I have no idea what cattle you are talking about, but we have used some part Canadian bulls and the ones we have used have been great. We bought ones with good bone and natural thickness. Just like women or men, if you put 10 different bulls in a pen, 10 different people will each like a different one. Some people are big on clean fronts and shoulders, some are big on good hips, some are legs and feet. That is why there are so many different cattle breeders in the business and that is why there are so many people married!LOL! [/QUOTE]
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