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<blockquote data-quote="1848" data-source="post: 280087" data-attributes="member: 1303"><p>Key word is <strong>"individual performancel"</strong> here. Of course individual performance not being compared to other animals for data collection is useless, even the AHA themselves will not include the singlular reported data in their genetic analysis! This should be interesting considering actual performance is "supposed" to be how EPD's are derived based on contemporary group reporting of that data. I'm sure they will argue that generations of reported data, and comparisons across a diverse section of the breed within different contemporary groups in the US is more of a reason to consider EPD's, and that it indicates how the animal will compare against the breed as a whole. This <strong>"does not"</strong> however eliminate a genetically inferior speciman! Which can be bred and rebred (based on paper EPD's) for generations over a herd of simularly poor specimans, increasing the accuracies and skewing the EPD's of those genetically inferior cattle.</p><p></p><p>Basically, I can say my cow raises the best calf every year, but if she is not compared to other like animals under the same management and nutritional conditions then how would I know for sure! My best might be your worst. I say nutritional availability/demands and management play a huge role. If all conditions were equal in all herds accuracies would be incredible, but they are not. There is plenty of biased reporting, Closed herd reporting, supplementation not being reported, environmental/climate advantages, and yes, "estimations of performance" all are figured in to the EPD's. Numbers can be manipulated, and it is proven over and over again. </p><p></p><p>Only a small percentage of the breedstock (older cows, and proven bulls) hold the percentage of accuracy which makes the AHA's point valid. The majority of registered cattle have EPD's based on carry down from several generations of animals not being reported on with any consistency or accuracy. Year after year, great new bulls and cows come around and look good on paper, only to turn upsidedown within a few years.</p><p>If they are going to cover anything about EPD's, <strong>they need to cover accuracies!</strong> </p><p></p><p>Take a look at your herds, and see how many generations behind your animals really have a high percentage of meaningful</p><p>data. Cows take 7 to 10 years of reporting to give you meaningful data to move your program forward. How many breeders keep bulls and cows for 10 years! Ask yourself why breeders don't! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /> Experience with phenotype, selection, culling, and actual data keep a breeder moving forward, not chasing the bull of the month, or flushing 2 year olds based on their great "un proven" EPD's and lack of actual reportable data.</p><p></p><p>I use EPD's, but they will never take the place of my own experiences with genetic lines, actual performance, and my eye for what is working, or will not work in my herd.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="1848, post: 280087, member: 1303"] Key word is [b]"individual performancel"[/b] here. Of course individual performance not being compared to other animals for data collection is useless, even the AHA themselves will not include the singlular reported data in their genetic analysis! This should be interesting considering actual performance is "supposed" to be how EPD's are derived based on contemporary group reporting of that data. I'm sure they will argue that generations of reported data, and comparisons across a diverse section of the breed within different contemporary groups in the US is more of a reason to consider EPD's, and that it indicates how the animal will compare against the breed as a whole. This [b]"does not"[/b] however eliminate a genetically inferior speciman! Which can be bred and rebred (based on paper EPD's) for generations over a herd of simularly poor specimans, increasing the accuracies and skewing the EPD's of those genetically inferior cattle. Basically, I can say my cow raises the best calf every year, but if she is not compared to other like animals under the same management and nutritional conditions then how would I know for sure! My best might be your worst. I say nutritional availability/demands and management play a huge role. If all conditions were equal in all herds accuracies would be incredible, but they are not. There is plenty of biased reporting, Closed herd reporting, supplementation not being reported, environmental/climate advantages, and yes, "estimations of performance" all are figured in to the EPD's. Numbers can be manipulated, and it is proven over and over again. Only a small percentage of the breedstock (older cows, and proven bulls) hold the percentage of accuracy which makes the AHA's point valid. The majority of registered cattle have EPD's based on carry down from several generations of animals not being reported on with any consistency or accuracy. Year after year, great new bulls and cows come around and look good on paper, only to turn upsidedown within a few years. If they are going to cover anything about EPD's, [b]they need to cover accuracies![/b] Take a look at your herds, and see how many generations behind your animals really have a high percentage of meaningful data. Cows take 7 to 10 years of reporting to give you meaningful data to move your program forward. How many breeders keep bulls and cows for 10 years! Ask yourself why breeders don't! :o Experience with phenotype, selection, culling, and actual data keep a breeder moving forward, not chasing the bull of the month, or flushing 2 year olds based on their great "un proven" EPD's and lack of actual reportable data. I use EPD's, but they will never take the place of my own experiences with genetic lines, actual performance, and my eye for what is working, or will not work in my herd. [/QUOTE]
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