Register them or forget it.

[wade]

I have 8 Red Angus cattle. 5 are registered in my name. I had one heifer and one bull calf last calving season (spring). I would like to register the heifer calf. I found out I have to be a member of Red Angus Assoc. to register anything. That is 60 dollars a year. Then I asked about registering the heifer calf from last year. I am suppose to do total herd reporting. That amounts to 15 dollars a animal per year. Now I understand that it is important for the breed to have people report BW,WW,etc. I guess my goal is to have around 15 cows that calve every year. I can sell all the farm raised beef locally that I could grow. I would like to keep everything registered but I cannot see where it would ever do me any great benefit. Am I missing something somewhere?

 

[manaftergodsheart413]

Well look at the bright side of things you register them yeah it may cost a little extra money but you benefit because if you end up with a top of the line animal you can consign it in a registered red angus sale and I really don't think you can do that unless you join the association and even when you sell them out of your pin you will be a able to make little more rather than taken it to the auction and that of course if its a quality animal

 

[TxStateCowboy]

well i would say just decide if you want to be a

a) a cattleman, raising beef because that is the business
or
b) a breeder that gets pride from owning a piece of paper that supposedly dictates the value of the animal.

I prefer A, but without B, A would have to believe what their suppliers say and use trial and error.

 

[dun]

I find it amusing that so many people bad month regitered cattle. If it wasn;t for the registered producers there wouldn;t be the animals for the commercial folks to use to generate the vaunted heterosis.

dun

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I can sell all the farm raised beef locally that I could grow. I would like to keep everything registered but I cannot see where it would ever do me any great benefit. Am I missing something somewhere

If you are considering this problem strictly from a "Dollar Earned" point of view, you have to compare what you receive from selling your beef locally to what you can receive by marketing your Registered Progeny at Registered sales. The quality of the product - Genotypically and Phenotypically - should be improving every year if you focus on maintaining the Registered quality of your herd. That is the name of the game.

DOC HARRIS

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I can sell all the farm raised beef locally that I could grow. I would like to keep everything registered but I cannot see where it would ever do me any great benefit. Am I missing something somewhere

If you are considering this problem strictly from a "Dollar Earned" point of view, you have to compare what you receive from selling your beef locally to what you can receive by marketing your Registered Progeny at Registered sales. The quality of the product - Genotypically and Phenotypically - should be improving every year if you focus on maintaining the Registered quality of your herd. That is the name of the game.

DOC HARRIS


Mr. Harris
He or She can have good cattle and not spend 500 per year. That 500 dollars would buy a lot of quality semen. Thus the dollars are converted to something more than toilet paper. I dare say no more than the top thirty percent of any breed is worthy of registration. No one should be forced to register an intire herd.

Intire herd registration just LEADS to not casterate or to breed inferior heifers.

I say again put that 500 dollars per year some where that will better your position in the cattle industry. ONLY REGISTER A ANIMAL THAT IS TRULY WORTHY TO BE REGISTERED.

One more thing anybody that has quality beef should be able to get $2.00 per pound rail weight and the consumer pays the processing. On a 800 lb carcass thats only a mere 1600 dollars. On 15 head thats only 24 thousand minus exspenses a lot of registered breeders would like to average that day in and day out. WITH 4 DOLLAR CORN AND PROPER MANAGEMENT THOSE ARE PRETTY GOOD RESULTS DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

I read your remarks. It might be advantageous to discuss your feelings with the Red Angus Association.

DOC HARRIS

 

[dun]

I can sell all the farm raised beef locally that I could grow. I would like to keep everything registered but I cannot see where it would ever do me any great benefit. Am I missing something somewhere

If you are considering this problem strictly from a "Dollar Earned" point of view, you have to compare what you receive from selling your beef locally to what you can receive by marketing your Registered Progeny at Registered sales. The quality of the product - Genotypically and Phenotypically - should be improving every year if you focus on maintaining the Registered quality of your herd. That is the name of the game.

DOC HARRIS

Mr. Harris
He or She can have good cattle and not spend 500 per year. That 500 dollars would buy a lot of quality semen. Thus the dollars are converted to something more than toilet paper. I dare say no more than the top thirty percent of any breed is worthy of registration. No one should be forced to register an intire herd.

Intire herd registration just LEADS to not casterate or to breed inferior heifers.

I say again put that 500 dollars per year some where that will better your position in the cattle industry. ONLY REGISTER A ANIMAL THAT IS TRULY WORTHY TO BE REGISTERED.

One more thing anybody that has quality beef should be able to get $2.00 per pound rail weight and the consumer pays the processing. On a 800 lb carcass thats only a mere 1600 dollars. On 15 head thats only 24 thousand minus exspenses a lot of registered breeders would like to average that day in and day out. WITH 4 DOLLAR CORN AND PROPER MANAGEMENT THOSE ARE PRETTY GOOD RESULTS DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

I think you need to look into whole herd reporting with the Red Angus Association before ranting about having to register an entire herd.
You don;t have to register anything if you don;t want to and the fee is based on only registered animals.

dun

 

[novatech]

I find it amusing that so many people bad month regitered cattle. If it wasn;t for the registered producers there wouldn;t be the animals for the commercial folks to use to generate the vaunted heterosis.

dun

Thanks Dun

Most people I know in the regestered bussiness make great efforts in inproveing EPD's.
These efforts have diffinetly improved commercial cattle quality, over all, in the cattle industry. All us old timers remember what cattle used to look like 40 years ago, as compared to todays cattle. There has been major improvements made in all areas of cattle development.

Wade.
It does not sound like you are interested in any of this.
So what you should do is get you a Herford bull ( or other ) and breed some F1's, which may bring a little higher price at the sale barn.

 

[dun]

Intire herd registration just LEADS to not casterate or to breed inferior heifers.

Excuse me dun but wade is the one who made the original address about total herd cost.

I also see he addressed killing his own animals did i ere in any information there. I beleive i said go for good genetics by AI and I firmly beleive red beats the blacks.

I also beleive a 1600 dollar pay day per animal is not chump change

This was the comment I was addressing

dun

 

[bigbull338]

yes you should join your breed assoc.if you are serious about quality reg cattle.they will help you market them.being a member allows you to sale cattle though assoc approved sale.yes $60 sounds like alot of money an it is.but the tools they give you along with the help is worth it.when i start buying reg beefmasters.im going to join the breed assoc.an the dues are $80 a yr.them im going to join the state BBU assoc.that way if i have saleable bulls an females.i can consign to the sales.

 

[Frankie]

I have 8 Red Angus cattle. 5 are registered in my name. I had one heifer and one bull calf last calving season (spring). I would like to register the heifer calf. I found out I have to be a member of Red Angus Assoc. to register anything. That is 60 dollars a year. Then I asked about registering the heifer calf from last year. I am suppose to do total herd reporting. That amounts to 15 dollars a animal per year. Now I understand that it is important for the breed to have people report BW,WW,etc. I guess my goal is to have around 15 cows that calve every year. I can sell all the farm raised beef locally that I could grow. I would like to keep everything registered but I cannot see where it would ever do me any great benefit. Am I missing something somewhere?

There are advantages to registering them. You can sell them as registered animals. They will have EPDs which could help you in improving your herd. If plan to sell everthing as beef and those things aren't important, then don't join.

I'm curious if your figures are accurate for membership and THR? Angus doesn't do THR, of course. But a membership is only $30 per year. Then if we want an Angus Journal subscription, it's another $50. So we pay $80 a year for membership and the magazine. Is there something similar with the Red Angus Association?

 

[smnherf]

[/quote]Intire herd registration just LEADS to not casterate or to breed inferior heifers.

I know of no breed association that requres total herd registration or prevents someone from casterating a bull. Its up to the breeder.

The AHA does have a two pronged program that gives you an option of participating in whole herd reporting or not. If you choose not to participate you receive no EPDs.

Those on TRP are required to maintain a yearly cow herd inventory for a preset fee and are then required to provide at least a BW for every calf to receive epds.

It certainly doesn't require anyone to register the calf, nor does it require anyone to breed inferior females, in fact it has the opposite effect, because if I am keeping an inferior female on my inventory, it costs me each and every year whereas the old system I could keep her around and not cost me a penny.

In addition the benefits are that the data submitted to the association is much more accurate as it gives the entire picture of that breeders calf crop, rather than just the picture of what the breeder wants to show. This data collection method results in more accurate EPDs.

I beleive that the red angus program is similar.

Brian

 

[wade]

This has turned into a good post so far. I didnt post this to start a registered vs. non registered war though, so keep that in mind while posting please. In northern Michigan where I am from there are not many beef cattle operations let alone Red Angus. I would be tickled pink if some RA breeder came to my little hobby farm and told me that come calving time or weaning time that he would like to go through my calves and pick out replacement heifers or young bulls. That certainly isnt going to happen. As far as selling calves at a registed sale, diesel fuel at 2.60 a gallon, cant see that paying unless one had quite a few to sell. I called the Red Angus Assoc. to confirm how this works again. You have to be a member to register any animal. They will bill you once a year 15 dollars per active registered animal. That is total herd reporting. Im not knocking it. I am glad people do this. I enjoy my cattle, am proud of my cattle and want good cattle.

 

[Brandonm2]

This has turned into a good post so far. I didnt post this to start a registered vs. non registered war though, so keep that in mind while posting please. In northern Michigan where I am from there are not many beef cattle operations let alone Red Angus. I would be tickled pink if some RA breeder came to my little hobby farm and told me that come calving time or weaning time that he would like to go through my calves and pick out replacement heifers or young bulls. That certainly isnt going to happen. As far as selling calves at a registed sale, diesel fuel at 2.60 a gallon, cant see that paying unless one had quite a few to sell. I called the Red Angus Assoc. to confirm how this works again. You have to be a member to register any animal. They will bill you once a year 15 dollars per active registered animal. That is total herd reporting. Im not knocking it. I am glad people do this. I enjoy my cattle, am proud of my cattle and want good cattle.

I can see both points of view; BUT to me the rule of thumb is if the cow is worth keeping she is worth registering. IF you direct market, pulling out that binder of papers to show: that this heifer is 'supposedly' in the top ~40% of this breed, or that this Bull's calves have a such and such EPD for REA or that this cow's maternal grand sire was so and so is usually worth the fee. I am not a great conversationalist, so I would rather make my sales pitch out of those papers than stand there and explain why my cows are supposedly better than the cheapest cow the dude saw at the stockyard last week.

 

[Brandonm2]

Intire herd registration just LEADS to not casterate or to breed inferior heifers.

I completely agree with THAT statement; but most people have 'whole herd reporting' not 'Intire herd registrations'. IF you have more than 50 cows, whole herd registrations (actually paying for a registration paper on every calf born) would be a little too big a check for most of us to want to write. Most registered herds probably only register 20-65% of their calf crop. The associations want the data (birth wt., weaning wt, etc) on as many of those other calves as possible to produce more accurate EPDs and to accurately inventory the number of registered cows that are out there.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

It seems that the majority of the "problems" of this World stem from a lack of total understanding of the facts present! - It reminds me of the story of the fly on the pitchfork handle which tried to fly away - - and crashed,. . . . landing on it's head and perishing in a horrible death! - Moral of the story? Well, you all know the "punch line"!

DOC HARRIS

 

[dun]

Intire herd registration just LEADS to not casterate or to breed inferior heifers.

I completely agree with THAT statement; but most people have 'whole herd reporting' not 'Intire herd registrations'. IF you have more than 50 cows, whole herd registrations (actually paying for a registration paper on every calf born) would be a little too big a check for most of us to want to write. Most registered herds probably only register 20-65% of their calf crop. The associations want the data (birth wt., weaning wt, etc) on as many of those other calves as possible to produce more accurate EPDs and to accurately inventory the number of registered cows that are out there.

The point is, with Red Angus it is total herd reporting, not registering. You have to report data on the animals that are registered and those are the ones you pay the annual fee on. THR pretty well makes people register the good stuff and dispose of the others unregistered.
I don;t know of any Red Angus breeders that I'm familiar with that register every animal.
If it isn;t a good enough animal to use as a registered cow, they may keep them as commercial, but there isn;t a fee for commercial cows. And since most registered breeders don;t want a huge herd of commercial cows they end up at the sale barn and ultimately on some ones table. The RA association was founded on the principles of performance data gathering. They also have some excellent programs for marketing those commercial animals and the steers too.

dun

 

[Dusty]

Papers = Integrity ... Registered Genetics are a business or Family Ranching Operation that is and will be as long as i breath Oxygen. For some it is pure business and making money is key one, those are the people who keep all the bulls to sell and people who bred heifers that should be slaughtered..

The one iron cattle are the people who take the bite out of the A** when Whole Herd Reporting comes along. The Reason being for 50-100 cows it can take a bull or two to cover the costs of reporting to the Association.

My experience with it is mixed, during the 90's i had a small herd (under 20 head) and i only reported and registered only the good calves. What followed is the top calf had breed average EPD's and the lighter calves i registered EPDs got hurt because of this even though they were the top 1/2 of my herd, they were not the top of the registered group and suffered due to this.

In 2001 the Charolais Association began a Whole Herd Reporting program, through this you pay 15 for every cow that you want to report info on or calves during a fiscal year.... Now that i am over 100 head of cows it hurts to right that check every year, but that is what makes me a purebred breeder. on the positive side Cow familys since 2001 that excel in performance and maternal traits have shown great improvement .... I only register the best calves but because i report all the calves and only register the better 50% my EPD's are not getting hurt, my bulls are showing high accuracy's and i believe the great cow familys can be found easier.

What has happened is since 01 AI sires who's good calves were always registered EPDs have suffered on a whole, bulls in 2000 who had a +45 YW epd now has a +32 YW epd... Results have shown he is not above breed average... Those are the benefits of whole herd reporting... Every animal is represented even if they are not registered...

Pay the $60, pay to get the right to report weights.. you don't have to register them all, but you herd will define it's self through the testing and Genetics advancements that can be made using it!

 

[Brandonm2]

I don;t know of any Red Angus breeders that I'm familiar with that register every animal.dun

I don't know anybody with more than 30 cows of ANY breed who actually REGISTERS every calf. I am sure that they are out there somewhere and somebody will pop up on this site and claim he registers 400 calves a year out of his 400 cows; but I don't know why anybody would think that the bottom 20% of any large calf crop needs to be propogating their genetics

 

[rocket2222]

Mr. Harris
He or She can have good cattle and not spend 500 per year. That 500 dollars would buy a lot of quality semen. Thus the dollars are converted to something more than toilet paper. I dare say no more than the top thirty percent of any breed is worthy of registration. No one should be forced to register an intire herd.

Intire herd registration just LEADS to not casterate or to breed inferior heifers.

I say again put that 500 dollars per year some where that will better your position in the cattle industry. ONLY REGISTER A ANIMAL THAT IS TRULY WORTHY TO BE REGISTERED.

One more thing anybody that has quality beef should be able to get $2.00 per pound rail weight and the consumer pays the processing. On a 800 lb carcass thats only a mere 1600 dollars. On 15 head thats only 24 thousand minus exspenses a lot of registered breeders would like to average that day in and day out. WITH 4 DOLLAR CORN AND PROPER MANAGEMENT THOSE ARE PRETTY GOOD RESULTS DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

So he's going spend this $500 on semen on bulls with "toilet paper". You know?. Breeders who have taken the time to collect data on there livestock, send it in, register the good ones, [not all of them] so there's a chance you,ll get a little idea about what your buying. Oh! at 1600 bucks a head I think he proberbly could afford to register a couple of them. And wouldn't this be a great time, [while there hanging on that rail]
to get some real data on ribeye backfat & marbling. Send that in, it would not only help his herd but also maybe help him make good choices on what bulls [with the so mentioned toilet paper] to use in the future.8) 8) { I kinder like the little dude with the shades.}