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Redhill B571 Julian 1W

bigbluegrass

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I am curious what the Red Angus breeders think of this bull:

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AR0261

I am looking to retain heifers. I want easy keeping cows. If I could make a change to the cows I have now it would be to add longevity. Does an 18 on the EPD for Stay correlate to longevity? I have some poor udders. All have adequate milk. I will give up growth to get good maternal traits. Is he a good cow maker? Should I be concerned about the CEM EPD? From what I have researched the low CEM comes from Cherokee Canyon. Is it pretty extreme? I am looking for any and all opinions. I did some looking online and can't find much about him except what the people selling semen on him have to say. Looks like he is from fescue country, which is a big plus. I happen to have some fescue out there :cboy:

If you don't like him, who in the ABS Red Angus line up is a good cow maker in your opinion?
 

City Guy

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Red Hill is breeding some of the best Red Angus today. This bull has excellent phenotype (although we can't see the feet and legs). Yes, 18 EPD for stay is super. Most all other EPD are in balance except CEM but if your cows are easy calving I see no trouble. He has an excellent REA/Cwt ratio: one of the best I've ever seen in the Red Angus breed. His dam is from the Barmaid family, one of the best in the breed and she is 12 years old. The RAAA shows 54 offspring from her
 

dun

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Cherokee Canyon is the poster boy for crappy calving daughters. We have alos used one of his sons and grandsons, their daughters also had below acceptable pelvic measurements. We used one of the original Julian bulls son, he was the only Red Angus bull we have ever had with no libido.
We have pretty much quit using ABS, Genex and Accelerated have had better bulls the past couple of years. Seems like ABS kind of ignored them for a while but are now starting to get back on board
 

bigbluegrass

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dun":nyvjhfxy said:
Cherokee Canyon is the poster boy for crappy calving daughters. We have alos used one of his sons and grandsons, their daughters also had below acceptable pelvic measurements. We used one of the original Julian bulls son, he was the only Red Angus bull we have ever had with no libido.
We have pretty much quit using ABS, Genex and Accelerated have had better bulls the past couple of years. Seems like ABS kind of ignored them for a while but are now starting to get back on board

Thanks for the information dun. Sounds like Cherokee Canyon is pretty potent for low CEM. I don't need a bunch of cows that have calving problems.

ABS just brought a bunch of new bulls into their Red Angus line-up in the last year. Most of the bulls in their line-up I consider unproven. New bulls come in and old ones go out so fast that I can't keep track of them. I just don't know enough about Red Angus bloodlines to know what to expect. The EPDs can only get you so far and most of them are in the .3 area (at best) for accuracy. That doesn't give me any confidence. Brown Ultimate has caught my attention a few times, what do you think about him?

If you had to pick a Red Angus bull from ABS, who would you pick?
 

Son of Butch

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Excellent Answer brings in the cow power of a Final Answer 035 Dam, but as you stated an unproven bull.
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/redang ... =237AR1329

Brown Premier ranks in top 1% for Herd-Builder, but lacks milk (+1) and adds frame, both can be either good or bad depending on need
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/redang ... o=29AR0258

Brown Ultimate... comment section claims excellent udders

Oscar X28 good numbers, but photo not as impressive... could it be he was pictured much younger than the others?
 

bigbluegrass

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Son of Butch":2yg0uoud said:
Excellent Answer brings in the cow power of a Final Answer 035 Dam, but as you stated an unproven bull.
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/redang ... =237AR1329

Brown Premier ranks in top 1% for Herd-Builder, but lacks milk (+1) and adds frame, both can be either good or bad depending on need
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/redang ... o=29AR0258

Brown Ultimate... comment section claims excellent udders

Oscar X28 good numbers, but photo not as impressive... could it be he was pictured much younger than the others?

Thanks SOB. I am having a hard time picking and not because of the large number of outstanding sires. More because they all have something I just can't get too excited about. Julian 1W was my pick, but if the small pelvic shows up generations later I am not so sure I want to bring that into my herd. It sounds like Cherokee Canyon had a very potent low CEM.

I am looking to retain most or all of the females. I am in herd building mode. My cows are a mixed up bunch of commercial cows - most have some black angus, some with jersey in them, one Gelbvieh jersey cross. Nothing really remarkable about them. I don't want big cows. I like those short fat cows with lots of guts - rather than the tall thin framey cows. Just looking for a good solid maternal red angus bull. The daughters of whatever red angus bull I pick will be bred to Hereford, and those females kept also for the most part. Hereford I am thinking of using R294.
 

Son of Butch

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bigbluegrass":11rsg9xv said:
Son of Butch":11rsg9xv said:
Excellent Answer brings in the cow power of a Final Answer 035 Dam, but as you stated an unproven bull.
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/redang ... =237AR1329

Brown Ultimate... comment section claims excellent udders

Oscar X28 good numbers, but photo not as impressive... could it be he was pictured much younger than the others?

I am having a hard time picking and not because of the large number of outstanding sires.
More because they all have something I just can't get too excited about.
Julian 1W was my pick, but .... Cherokee Canyon had a very potent low CEM.

I am looking to retain most or all of the females. I am in herd building mode.
My cows are a mixed up bunch of commercial cows - I don't want big cows.
I like those short fat cows with lots of guts - rather than the tall thin framey cows.
Just looking for a good solid maternal Red Angus bull.
I understand and reaching for a well balanced but unproven bull such as Excellent Answer is kind of a risk reward
scenario. I did so out of my respect for Final Answer 035's ability to make the easy fleshing kind of cows you like.
Where's Cow Pollinator when you need him?
Perhaps you should send him a pm.
 

bigbluegrass

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Son of Butch":3ufi29za said:
bigbluegrass":3ufi29za said:
Son of Butch":3ufi29za said:
Excellent Answer brings in the cow power of a Final Answer 035 Dam, but as you stated an unproven bull.
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/redang ... =237AR1329

Brown Ultimate... comment section claims excellent udders

Oscar X28 good numbers, but photo not as impressive... could it be he was pictured much younger than the others?

I am having a hard time picking and not because of the large number of outstanding sires.
More because they all have something I just can't get too excited about.
Julian 1W was my pick, but .... Cherokee Canyon had a very potent low CEM.

I am looking to retain most or all of the females. I am in herd building mode.
My cows are a mixed up bunch of commercial cows - I don't want big cows.
I like those short fat cows with lots of guts - rather than the tall thin framey cows.
Just looking for a good solid maternal Red Angus bull.
I understand and reaching for a well balanced but unproven bull such as Excellent Answer is kind of a risk reward
scenario. I did so out of my respect for Final Answer 035's ability to make the easy fleshing kind of cows you like.
Where's Cow Pollinator when you need him?
Perhaps you should send him a pm.

Excellent Answer does have a nice pedigree. Picture looks pretty impressive also. He has a lot of potential for sure.I don't know why his milk EPD is so low. 14 is a good bit below breed average. If I am not mistake, breed average is 20. Like you said, he is unproven. Might be a stud... might be a dud. Time will tell.
 

Baldie Maker

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Bluegrass don't be dissuade so easily from 1W, if he didn't have any merit he wouldn't of been bought and used in the Buffalo Creek Red Angus Program. You're location says Northern KY so I'll say it's safe to assume you're on fescue pasture; the Redhill Program is based around western genetics that thrive on fescue; particularly endophyte infected KY31.
I have no personal experience with the bull and he hasn't been used to the best of my knowledge at Redhill either, but tracking the VF program because of the bull those cattle seemed to be very light in color which with our reds seem to help with earlier shedding and staying in the sun longer into the day.
The Cherokee Canyon cow behind this bull is a real power cow and has been flush many ways successfully especially when bred to calving ease bulls from beckton. Her hair is extremely good in that she sheds early every year and does a very good job of transferring that to her progeny. Her dam is the Cornerstone of the Barmaid cow family at Red Hill and her influence is spread throughout the herd; her hair and adaptability to KY was extremely good.
While I don't know that I'd use this bull particularly I wouldn't use unproven western bulls and gamble on all the unknows when a program of such quality exists within a few hours driving time.
Don't hesitate to call Bart, Sarah, or Gordon Jones as they would love to talk cattle with you; they have semen for sale on many of their herdsires and a sale the third Saturday in March.

link to the semen for sale page as well as email and home phone for bart and sarah posted below.
http://www.redhillfarms.net/semen-for-sale/
 

bigbluegrass

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Baldie Maker":132ztmtz said:
Bluegrass don't be dissuade so easily from 1W, if he didn't have any merit he wouldn't of been bought and used in the Buffalo Creek Red Angus Program. You're location says Northern KY so I'll say it's safe to assume you're on fescue pasture; the Redhill Program is based around western genetics that thrive on fescue; particularly endophyte infected KY31.
I have no personal experience with the bull and he hasn't been used to the best of my knowledge at Redhill either, but tracking the VF program because of the bull those cattle seemed to be very light in color which with our reds seem to help with earlier shedding and staying in the sun longer into the day.
The Cherokee Canyon cow behind this bull is a real power cow and has been flush many ways successfully especially when bred to calving ease bulls from beckton. Her hair is extremely good in that she sheds early every year and does a very good job of transferring that to her progeny. Her dam is the Cornerstone of the Barmaid cow family at Red Hill and her influence is spread throughout the herd; her hair and adaptability to KY was extremely good.
While I don't know that I'd use this bull particularly I wouldn't use unproven western bulls and gamble on all the unknows when a program of such quality exists within a few hours driving time.
Don't hesitate to call Bart, Sarah, or Gordon Jones as they would love to talk cattle with you; they have semen for sale on many of their herdsires and a sale the third Saturday in March.

link to the semen for sale page as well as email and home phone for bart and sarah posted below.
http://www.redhillfarms.net/semen-for-sale/

Thanks for your input Baldie Maker! It is nice to hear from someone who has used some of Red Hill Farms genetics. It sounds like you are happy with them.

Yes, I am in fescue country! If I used 1W, his female offspring would be on predominately KY31 fescue pasture. I know Red Hill is in fescue country, so that has weighed heavily in their favor. I haven't really had any problems with any of my cows and the fescue, but I would hate to use a bull that threw daughters that did have a problem. I don't know how likely that is to happen, but I bet it would not happen with Julian 1W offspring...
 

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