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Red/Black Angus Question

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Boot Jack Bulls

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Can someone save me a major headache trying to read the Angus Association rules and answer my question.....
I have a black bull calf out of a registered black Angus cow, sired by a registered red Angus bull....can the calf be papered with the Angus Association???? (I know he can have non-show papers in the RAA, just wondering about the AAA) Thanks in advance!
 

cow pollinater

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No. He can be registered with the red angus association and any red progeny from registered red angus cows will be 1A(as long as the cows are) but AAA doesn't reciprocate.
 
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Boot Jack Bulls

Boot Jack Bulls

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cow pollinater":2j0ah02l said:
No. He can be registered with the red angus association and any red progeny from registered red angus cows will be 1A(as long as the cows are) but AAA doesn't reciprocate.
Thanks CP! If I can't register him for show papers, he won't likely be breeding anything. It's too bad, he's a good one. His dam is our only black angus, so she usually gets bred to the same bull as the rest of that herd. Bummer....
 

dun

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cow pollinater":12k1gwm0 said:
No. He can be registered with the red angus association and any red progeny from registered red angus cows will be 1A(as long as the cows are) but AAA doesn't reciprocate.
With the Red Angus Association it will classified as Category 3, pure angus with a disqualifying characteristic, black color. Any offspring can be registered as Red Angus and not cat 3 if they are red
 
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Boot Jack Bulls

Boot Jack Bulls

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dun":jtttz0rx said:
cow pollinater":jtttz0rx said:
No. He can be registered with the red angus association and any red progeny from registered red angus cows will be 1A(as long as the cows are) but AAA doesn't reciprocate.
With the Red Angus Association it will classified as Category 3, pure angus with a disqualifying characteristic, black color. Any offspring can be registered as Red Angus and not cat 3 if they are red
I was able to find the red Angus rules fairly easily....the AAA website is another matter. It's really a moot point for this guy anyway, unfortunately. I don't have enough red Angus females to breed to him (eventually) to justify registering him with the RAA (and roll the dice on the registerablilty of the offspring) Those girls will be bred to Limi bulls specifically with the goal of producing red Lim-Flex (with no question about ability to register with NALF).
 

dun

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Boot Jack Bulls":2eygr3c4 said:
dun":2eygr3c4 said:
cow pollinater":2eygr3c4 said:
No. He can be registered with the red angus association and any red progeny from registered red angus cows will be 1A(as long as the cows are) but AAA doesn't reciprocate.
With the Red Angus Association it will classified as Category 3, pure angus with a disqualifying characteristic, black color. Any offspring can be registered as Red Angus and not cat 3 if they are red
I was able to find the red Angus rules fairly easily....the AAA website is another matter. It's really a moot point for this guy anyway, unfortunately. I don't have enough red Angus females to breed to him (eventually) to justify registering him with the RAA (and roll the dice on the registerablilty of the offspring) Those girls will be bred to Limi bulls specifically with the goal of producing red Lim-Flex (with no question about ability to register with NALF).
Just think, it's all because one guy years ago decided that in the US angus would be black only.
 

pdfangus

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I have the reverse....I have a good young registered black cow that this year had a heifer calf by the neighbors Red Angus bull.

she is probably the prettiest calf I have this year and this cow has raised a couple of nice steer calves the last couple of years...

neighbor has already agreed to sign breeding papers for me to register her with the red association if she still looks worthwhile at weaning...
 
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Boot Jack Bulls

Boot Jack Bulls

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dun":1q2jr25i said:
Boot Jack Bulls":1q2jr25i said:
dun":1q2jr25i said:
With the Red Angus Association it will classified as Category 3, pure angus with a disqualifying characteristic, black color. Any offspring can be registered as Red Angus and not cat 3 if they are red
I was able to find the red Angus rules fairly easily....the AAA website is another matter. It's really a moot point for this guy anyway, unfortunately. I don't have enough red Angus females to breed to him (eventually) to justify registering him with the RAA (and roll the dice on the registerablilty of the offspring) Those girls will be bred to Limi bulls specifically with the goal of producing red Lim-Flex (with no question about ability to register with NALF).
Just think, it's all because one guy years ago decided that in the US angus would be black only.
I get the point of what you are saying here. But what about all the so called purebred black Angus out there with a white flank?????
 

5S Cattle

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Yup that's what I don't get either. I was at a special sale a while back where they had white spots on a couple of the angus bulls and one even had small horns. Bigger than scurs. They were all registered though?
 

elkwc

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5S Cattle":1d8itdqw said:
Yup that's what I don't get either. I was at a special sale a while back where they had white spots on a couple of the angus bulls and one even had small horns. Bigger than scurs. They were all registered though?

I've seen both extra white and scurs on registered Angus bulls. IMO something isn't kosher.
 

dun

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In the early sixties a friend of mine (Gertrude Maitland) had angus cattle that had been in her closed herd since the late 40s. A lot of those had scurs and some had more white then you would expect. They were smallish in stature and mean as any crazy cow you have ever seen. But boy they sure put a lot of meat on the carcass. We used them to breed Holstein heifers at the dairy.
 

elkwc

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dun":3pen9wlv said:
In the early sixties a friend of mine (Gertrude Maitland) had angus cattle that had been in her closed herd since the late 40s. A lot of those had scurs and some had more white then you would expect. They were smallish in stature and mean as any crazy cow you have ever seen. But boy they sure put a lot of meat on the carcass. We used them to breed Holstein heifers at the dairy.
Again maybe it is a case of the area I'm in. Here we always thought Black Angus were homo polled and very little if any white in the scrotum area. I saw my first two with scurs that I knew were registered about 4 years ago. Since have seen a few more.
 

Lucky_P

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Scurs have been present in the Angus genepool since early on in the breed's founding.
At least two influential sires, way back in the early days - Shah and Hanton 80 - had scurs.
That, however doesn't mean that the presence of scurs in today's cattle isn't the result of introduction of 'non-Angus' genetics at some point in the past... whether unrealized (fence-jumping neighbor's bull) or nefariously concealed by unscrupulous breeders.

I've used one well-known Angus AI sire that's been reputed to sire scurs - but have not seen them personally.
Horn and scur genes are present in my crossbred herd... had a scurred cow, sired by an Angus AI sire with a GAR prefix... in order for a cow to express scurs, she has to inherit a copy from both parents... so I know that bull is a carrier...assuming Select Sires put the correct semen in the straw.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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A little further discussion on the inheritance of scurs.
Scurs is a "sex-linked" gene. A bull only needs to inherit ONE gene to express the scurs - dominant in male calf. A female has to inherit TWO genes (recessive gene).
 

Jake

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Boot Jack Bulls":3iyodo39 said:
dun":3iyodo39 said:
Boot Jack Bulls":3iyodo39 said:
I was able to find the red Angus rules fairly easily....the AAA website is another matter. It's really a moot point for this guy anyway, unfortunately. I don't have enough red Angus females to breed to him (eventually) to justify registering him with the RAA (and roll the dice on the registerablilty of the offspring) Those girls will be bred to Limi bulls specifically with the goal of producing red Lim-Flex (with no question about ability to register with NALF).
Just think, it's all because one guy years ago decided that in the US angus would be black only.
I get the point of what you are saying here. But what about all the so called purebred black Angus out there with a white flank?????

Go back and look at the pictures of angus all the way to Old Jock, lot of white bellies on them a century or more ago. They started selecting against it but never completely bred it away.
 

Jake

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Lucky_P":1aq1g8f5 said:
assuming Select Sires put the correct semen in the straw.

I know hawkeye got to buy a bunch of yellow flowered calves one year from putting fleck semen in a char straw. It does happen.

In fact I"m convinced we got the wrong bull some SAV Birthstone straws. Calves came out huge and their is a marked difference between the calves.
 

Muddy

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I've seen few scurred registered black Angus bulls and bulls with white belly.
 

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