rebreeding

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Anonymous

Have 2 Angus cows that had calves in early May. In July we had someone come out to AI them. We had given the Lutalyse shot to them. After three days the man came out. They were'nt in heat. so we waited 10 days and gave another shot. It was suppose to be a sure thing. Three days later the man came out and said they were ready and AI them. He gave us dates to look for on signs of heat. We had no signs of heat. So after 8 weeks the vet came to check for Pregnancy. He said they weren't pg. So does anyone know what else to look for if theyre not showing any signs of heat? And is it hard to get a cow pg with AI? The vet did say everything was ok with both the cows. Thanks

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A

Anonymous

Heat detection is the single hardest and most important part of AI. And no, it's no harder to get a cow to settle via AI then it is for the bull. Get some type of mount detector. There are Kamars - pretty expensive, painting the tail head with a paint stick - real cheap, or a new deal that I've seen that is gray colored and has the kind of stuff on it that the lottery scrathers have on them - cheaper then Kamars but more then a paint stick. Some cows just don't seem to settle very well with the manipulation of of heats with hormone injections. The problem you run into then is being able to get a technician out when you need one if you use natural heats. BTW, there is also an eloctronic heat detector but they are very exensive for only a couple of cows. High daytime temps also make it harder to settle them.

dun

> Have 2 Angus cows that had calves
> in early May. In July we had
> someone come out to AI them. We
> had given the Lutalyse shot to
> them. After three days the man
> came out. They were'nt in heat. so
> we waited 10 days and gave another
> shot. It was suppose to be a sure
> thing. Three days later the man
> came out and said they were ready
> and AI them. He gave us dates to
> look for on signs of heat. We had
> no signs of heat. So after 8 weeks
> the vet came to check for
> Pregnancy. He said they weren't
> pg. So does anyone know what else
> to look for if theyre not showing
> any signs of heat? And is it hard
> to get a cow pg with AI? The vet
> did say everything was ok with
> both the cows. Thanks
 
OP
A

Anonymous

>And no, it's no harder to get
> a cow to settle via AI then it is
> for the bull.

You go on to counter this statement in your post. I too disagree, as it is much easier to get cows bred with a good bull than with A.I.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

So after 8 weeks
> the vet came to check for
> Pregnancy. He said they weren't
> pg.

Sure wouldn't have my cows preg tested at 8 weeks. If you vet is not real good, he may miss them at that stage or worse, messing with them at that stage could cause the pregnancy to terminate, wait until 90 days.

Maybe you just have a couple of hard to breed Angus.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

A lot depends on the profiency of your AI tech, and quality of the semen.

We're going to have a much tighter calving season next year by using AI. According to the studies, most bulls settle 60% of the cows on the first service, AI runs about 70% (again, according to the studies), but this year I've had 89% conception on the first service with synchronized cows/heifers. The clean up bull isn't real happy with me, but all the calves will be on the ground in a very short period of time.

Ann B

> You go on to counter this
> statement in your post. I too
> disagree, as it is much easier to
> get cows bred with a good bull
> than with A.I.



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A

Anonymous

According to the studies, most
> bulls settle 60% of the cows on
> the first service, AI runs about
> 70% (again, according to the
> studies),

Congratulations. You had a very good year A.I.ing. 89% is outstanding!

I would be interested in seeing any study that compared first service conception between A.I. and natural breeding under the same conditions and showed a higher rate for A.I. over natural breeding, as I have never seen that before, ever.

Still, regardless of conception rates, there can be no argument that using natural service is EASIER than using A.I. breeding.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

> Congratulations. You had a very
> good year A.I.ing. 89% is
> outstanding!

Considering that this was my first year doing it, I think it worked out real well -- I told Dad not to expect more than 50% since we were only able to breed once daily.

> I would be interested in seeing
> any study that compared first
> service conception between A.I.
> and natural breeding under the
> same conditions and showed a
> higher rate for A.I. over natural
> breeding, as I have never seen
> that before, ever.

That's according to KABSU (Kansas Artificial Breeding Services Unit), they're a part of Kansas State University, where I took the AI class. It was taught as fact in the class.

> Still, regardless of conception
> rates, there can be no argument
> that using natural service is
> EASIER than using A.I. breeding.

Gotta agree there -- much easier to open a gate and let the old bull in, but we need replacement heifers and aren't ready to replace the old bull, so hopefully the bulls we AI'd to will give us some good heifers.

Ann B



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A

Anonymous

Easier doesn't mean better or more desirable. The only plus in using a bull is convenience.

dun

> Considering that this was my first
> year doing it, I think it worked
> out real well -- I told Dad not to
> expect more than 50% since we were
> only able to breed once daily.

> That's according to KABSU (Kansas
> Artificial Breeding Services
> Unit), they're a part of Kansas
> State University, where I took the
> AI class. It was taught as fact in
> the class.

> Gotta agree there -- much easier
> to open a gate and let the old
> bull in, but we need replacement
> heifers and aren't ready to
> replace the old bull, so hopefully
> the bulls we AI'd to will give us
> some good heifers.

> Ann B
 
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A

Anonymous

I totally agree. And in some cases (like mine), keeping a bull is NOT convenient at all. Here at home, I only keep 2 Jersey milk cows and a series of calves. No room, no desire, and no facilities for a bull. The oldest bull you'll ever find on this place would be less than a year, once they become "hormonal" they're sold as "gomers".

For what it would cost to feed a bull for year, I took an AI class and bought semen.

Dad's place is different matter though, it will take a long while to convince him that he doesn't *need* a bull. But I did convince him not to replace this old bull just yet, and to AI the cows and use the old bull for clean up. I footed the bill for this first year's AI, I figure it will be worth it in the end when Dad ends up a nice crop of calves and he sees that the actual cost of AI wasn't that much. We can AI for many years off of what a new bull would cost -- and those bulls in that tank can't run you over. Can't take out 100 ft of fence to go and visit the neighbors girls and fight the neighbor's bull either.

And we had a great big added benefit from syncronizing and AI'ing this year. Most of the old guys around Dad's claim that the more times you put a cow through the chute the wilder she'll get -- phooey! We put the cows through twice for Lutalyse, then AI'd over 3 days, with all the cows going through the chute each day, so every cow went through 5 times. We kept everything real calm and quiet.

Had the vet out last week to work the herd and those old cows were sweethearts, filed right in, stuck their head out to be caught, stayed real calm, nobody got upset. It was great! Only going through the chute once a year wasn't enough to teach them that the chute wouldn't hurt them. Going through calmly, 5 times in a short period, really did make a difference.

Ann B

> Easier doesn't mean better or more
> desirable. The only plus in using
> a bull is convenience.

> dun



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A

Anonymous

The key is calm and quiet. Rodeo them and yahoo them around and they get chute shy ion a hurry. Our older cows no longer trip the auto catch on the chute. They walk in as far as they should be and stop so I have to go trip it to hold them.

dun

> I totally agree. And in some cases
> (like mine), keeping a bull is NOT
> convenient at all. Here at home, I
> only keep 2 Jersey milk cows and a
> series of calves. No room, no
> desire, and no facilities for a
> bull. The oldest bull you'll ever
> find on this place would be less
> than a year, once they become
> "hormonal" they're sold
> as "gomers".

> For what it would cost to feed a
> bull for year, I took an AI class
> and bought semen.

> Dad's place is different matter
> though, it will take a long while
> to convince him that he doesn't
> *need* a bull. But I did convince
> him not to replace this old bull
> just yet, and to AI the cows and
> use the old bull for clean up. I
> footed the bill for this first
> year's AI, I figure it will be
> worth it in the end when Dad ends
> up a nice crop of calves and he
> sees that the actual cost of AI
> wasn't that much. We can AI for
> many years off of what a new bull
> would cost -- and those bulls in
> that tank can't run you over.
> Can't take out 100 ft of fence to
> go and visit the neighbors girls
> and fight the neighbor's bull
> either.

> And we had a great big added
> benefit from syncronizing and
> AI'ing this year. Most of the old
> guys around Dad's claim that the
> more times you put a cow through
> the chute the wilder she'll get --
> phooey! We put the cows through
> twice for Lutalyse, then AI'd over
> 3 days, with all the cows going
> through the chute each day, so
> every cow went through 5 times. We
> kept everything real calm and
> quiet.

> Had the vet out last week to work
> the herd and those old cows were
> sweethearts, filed right in, stuck
> their head out to be caught,
> stayed real calm, nobody got
> upset. It was great! Only going
> through the chute once a year
> wasn't enough to teach them that
> the chute wouldn't hurt them.
> Going through calmly, 5 times in a
> short period, really did make a
> difference.

> Ann B
 
OP
A

Anonymous

I was also just told by one of the semen distributors that our high conception rate can probably be attributed to keeping things calm and quiet.

AnnB

> The key is calm and quiet.

> dun



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A

Anonymous

Cows that are calm in the chute or wahtever used as a breeding restraint have a higher conception rate then the excited ones. I think it may be a two fold cause and affect. An excited cow gets, hotter plus the adrenalin may cause a problem, don't know about that part of it. My part of the equation is that it's harder to deposit the semen accurately if the cows is jumping around and acting up. My only two rebreeds this year were from heifers that got goofy in the chute and kept jumping around. I felt I was on target or I wouldn't have deposited the system, but if they jump once you start depositing it you can't tell where it really ends up. Both of them settled second service and didn't get as excited the second time. The first time with an arm up their butt may unnerve them some what.

dun

> I was also just told by one of the
> semen distributors that our high
> conception rate can probably be
> attributed to keeping things calm
> and quiet.

> AnnB
 

A. delaGarza

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I disagree after 60 days a good Vet will detect pregnangcy


John S.":3l9z6lcm said:
So after 8 weeks
> the vet came to check for
> Pregnancy. He said they weren't
> pg.

Sure wouldn't have my cows preg tested at 8 weeks. If you vet is not real good, he may miss them at that stage or worse, messing with them at that stage could cause the pregnancy to terminate, wait until 90 days.

Maybe you just have a couple of hard to breed Angus.
 

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