Question about old whitetails
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Jogeephus
Well-known member
I don't know this to be fact but from my observations, yes. I have a buck I am hunting I call Whitey. His face has a lot of white on him and I know he is in decline just from his antlers and his sway back. He also has more white white on him than most of the other deer and you can tell the animals he has sired by these markings but he still has more white in places other than the younger deer he sired do.
Kingfisher
Well-known member
Yes. A graying scalp and face. My source is a book called Observing and evaluating white tail deer.
Kingfisher
Well-known member
I was with some fellows last night talking deer and looking at pictures of some of the deer running around the neighborhoods here in N Austin. They showed me a picture of a " black buck" that is here. Black as coal w a chocolate rack. Some sort of subspecies that I think is more prevalent out west. Who knows how he got here! We also laughed about the one running around last winter with his rack carrying a full stringer of Xmas lights!Jogeephus":ptufr0l2 said:
Jogeephus
Well-known member
Several years ago they imported some Wisconsin deer into our area to help build the gene pool for trophies. I don't know much about this species of deer other than they are larger with better racks but I can't help but wonder if Whitey doesn't have more of these genes in him.
Saw a good shooter yesterday afternoon. One I had never seen before. He stepped out behind a doe I was watching and all I could see was this massive rack then he dropped behind a bush. I sat there till dark over 45 minutes with my crosshairs on his chest hoping he would step out from behind the bush but he wouldn't budge. I know he didn't see me nor did hear me but he must have winded me and he kept blowing every few minutes. Had he only take on step out from behind the bush I'd have dropped him but I didn't want to risk the shot and wound him with all the junk in front of him. Most exciting day deer hunting I've had in some time.
Saw a good shooter yesterday afternoon. One I had never seen before. He stepped out behind a doe I was watching and all I could see was this massive rack then he dropped behind a bush. I sat there till dark over 45 minutes with my crosshairs on his chest hoping he would step out from behind the bush but he wouldn't budge. I know he didn't see me nor did hear me but he must have winded me and he kept blowing every few minutes. Had he only take on step out from behind the bush I'd have dropped him but I didn't want to risk the shot and wound him with all the junk in front of him. Most exciting day deer hunting I've had in some time.
The reason I asked is because of a spike that I've seen this year but I've never got a clear look at his body. The spikes are at least a foot long and heavy with just a bit of a wiggle in them but they go straight up and he has brow tines almost as long as his ears. I can;t notice any greying on his face so I wondered if he was an old buck that is declining or a young buck that's just strange.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
If I can't tell for sure if its weird or declining I give them the benefit of the doubt hoping it will grow to form some atypical monstrosity on its head cause I'd much rather have a big freak on my wall than a nice typical but that's just me.
M.Magis
Well-known member
Some do and some don't. It's also not unusual for a young deer to have a grey face, there's a lot of variation in color.
Ouachita
Well-known member
I grew up hearing old timers say "once a spike, always a spike". They were not referring to young button bucks, but to any buck that was 2 year old or older that was still a spike. I don't know if this is true or not.dun":r6b6x94q said:
Jogeephus
Well-known member
Ouachita":1sga8nxz said:
There are no absolutes in nature so this could be possible but its very unlikely. The vast majority of spikes will turn into a decent bucks if given a chance and the right nutrition. A lot of the confusion comes from does that miscarried and bred later in the year - their offspring is like a bottle calf - and I think some people just like to justify their, "if its brown its down" mentality. What will make you a believer is seeing photos of the same deer taken each year as they age. That is a real eye opener to the potential you could have if people would show a little restraint and forgo their craving for those tender little antlers. :lol2:
Ouachita
Well-known member
I agree with this and everything else in your post. I live in an area where a doe deer could not be harvested until the the early 90's, and then we had to apply for a permit. Back then we were allowed 2 bucks per year. Things have changed a lot. Although I do not understand some management practices, I am very happy with the result.Jogeephus":2v4rw31b said:
I did not intend for my post to be taken as a reason to meat hunt, although you are probably correct that many folks back then justified their actions with some old wives tales. I devote more attention to my target than most, and teach my kids the same. I dont hunt horns nor just meat. We have a duty to manage, and in that process we enjoy the harvest.
highgrit
Well-known member
A few years back the largest set of antlers ever grown on a whitetail deer grossed in the 380's. And you guessed right he was a spike his first year.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
Ouachita, when I was growing up it was the same way. A good year deer hunting was when you saw two does. A great year was when you shot something with an antler because that is all you could shoot. The guy I hunted with had hunted five years before he got his first buck. Does were off limits because they could reproduce. I think this is where some of this thought got so engrained in people's minds. What's bad is people will still kill the young bucks when they have a choice. This is what really gets my goat.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Jogeephus":z5b0cgm7 said:
They brought deer in here in the fifties from Va. to improve the genetics and every now and then someone kills a monster in size and rack.
All we can figure is the DNA gets lined up right from time to time going back to the imports.
Commercialfarmer
Well-known member
I sure think that most grey with age.
Reminds me of the first year I went hunting in a stand by myself. A huge buck was chasing a doe and ran up about 15 yrds from me and stopped behind a cedar. All I could see was his head. I just needed him to take one step. I don't know if he smelled me, but as he stood there for what seemed like eternity with all those tall points glimmering in the sunlight, I'm certain that he heard the squeaking of the blind vibrating in the tree like a 8.0 earthquake. :lol2: I couldn't have hit him at 5 feet after having to stair at that rack that long. He took off again after the doe putting the tree between us. They zipped in and out of few trees a couple hundred yards away and were gone. Hunting is the only drug I do.
Jogeephus":d9xwolvm said:
Reminds me of the first year I went hunting in a stand by myself. A huge buck was chasing a doe and ran up about 15 yrds from me and stopped behind a cedar. All I could see was his head. I just needed him to take one step. I don't know if he smelled me, but as he stood there for what seemed like eternity with all those tall points glimmering in the sunlight, I'm certain that he heard the squeaking of the blind vibrating in the tree like a 8.0 earthquake. :lol2: I couldn't have hit him at 5 feet after having to stair at that rack that long. He took off again after the doe putting the tree between us. They zipped in and out of few trees a couple hundred yards away and were gone. Hunting is the only drug I do.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
I am CB and an addict as well.
I am sure as they age they turn grey as well. I haven't found any Miss Clairol boxes in the woods yet.
Of the hundreds I have taken I really never thought about it until this thread.
Now when I ground check one I will have to look .
I am sure as they age they turn grey as well. I haven't found any Miss Clairol boxes in the woods yet.
Of the hundreds I have taken I really never thought about it until this thread.
Now when I ground check one I will have to look .
Maybe the mulies and blacktails I hunted in the west tended to be older then the whitetails are around here. I shot one a couple of years ago that was aged at 7 years old and had the potbelly but other thenthe white band around his nose his face was dark. Last year my wife shot an 8 year old and it was the same way. After that one I think I'll either hunt strictly for horns and donate the meat or shoot a doe for meat. He dropped in tall grass and I found him by smell cause he was rutting so bad, the meat is so nasty that cooking it runs you out of the hosue and I can;t choke the stuff down. There is one little milk mouth forky running around that the forks are less then half the length of his ears, may wack him for meat this year.Caustic Burno":2ns3qy5v said:
Jogeephus
Well-known member
I'm shooting does. Just have way too many deer and they are harming the crops. My doe/buck ratio is all out of whack and I gotta get it in balance. I've seen some nice bucks so far but only two I'd have shot if they hadn't bested me. I'm seeing a lot of twins so I don't know if I shouldn't up the estimated cull number to take this into account.
highgrit
Well-known member
Good luck Jo. If you plant green fields or food plots or have year round feeders you are fighting a losing battle. Unless you have a high fence. All of my neighbors complain that people are killing to many does, and the deer numbers are way down. And we are seeing 10-20 does every afternoon. My brother saw 17 different bucks Friday morning, and that afternoon I could see 35 deer at one time. We've been shooting 30-50 does a year for a long time and they just keep coming to the feed and cover. I let no one walk in the thick woods or the creek bottoms unless we find blood.
