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<blockquote data-quote="Bez&amp;gt;" data-source="post: 366445" data-attributes="member: 6007"><p>OK - I will try one more time.</p><p></p><p>Many possibilities, but here are a few - I will stay with normal presentations for this exercise:</p><p></p><p><strong>Scenario one</strong> - two feet - the correct feet show - just the tips - about 90 minutes after water breaks. She is laying down but still restless and not truly determined to have that calf.</p><p></p><p>She gets up - and of course the feet disappear.</p><p></p><p>Do you pull?</p><p></p><p>Hope not - she is not ready - even if she stands hunched over - not in trouble yet. She might stay like this for an hour before she starts again - no push and no worry. It looks worse than it is.</p><p></p><p><strong>Scenario two</strong> - She is on her side and still has her head up and is pushing - lots of effort and two feet and a nose show up. I like this one because I now know the head is in "the channel" and not turned back. Suddenly she stops pushing. </p><p></p><p>She has been at it for 45 minutes - intermittent and irregular pushing - some hard and some not so hard.</p><p></p><p>She is tired, but she is not worn out and has some effort left in her yet. She may not be opened up enough. </p><p></p><p>In fact she may even get up and walk around for a bit - a bit of a stretch and a bit of a break from labour. If she does, everything disappears again.</p><p></p><p>I have seen this "break" take as long as an hour. Calf will be fine.</p><p></p><p>Do you pull? Not me - not yet.</p><p></p><p><strong>Scenario three</strong> - Cow is pushing and two feet are well out - hocks plainly visible and nose coming good. We are 35 minutes into the action. She gets tired and stops. She gets up and of course the head and even the feet may disappear - stands there hunched over for a few minutes - turns around lays down and starts to push.</p><p></p><p>You going to pull? Not me. She has lots left in her.</p><p></p><p><strong>Scenario four</strong> - 45 minutes into this she is finally pushing hard - hips come up off the ground and the head is straight out forward and coming high. This girl is getting serious now. The feet come and then a bit of nose. Looks good - but two or three more of those gut wrenching pushes and she lays flat out on her side -breathing hard. About three to 10 minutes later she repeats this - the real serious pushing - hips and fromt shoulders come up and head stretched out - no advance of feet and nose - stops and lays down hard and flat out. </p><p></p><p>Do you pull? I do not - I <u><em><strong>HELP!!</strong></em></u></p><p></p><p>If she lets me I do it right there - even the wild ones will sometimes allow this - otherwise it is off to the squeeze. A double set of half hitches high up on the legs and I wait for her to push - when she does I pull as required.</p><p></p><p>I never jack the calf out - I have and I can but it is poor technique in my opinion.</p><p></p><p>I had all four of these happen to me this weekend while I was sitting here on CT and writing about "stuff". </p><p></p><p>The hard birth ended up being unassisted - while I was prepping the squeeze and getting the "Doctor Frank" put together - I was even ready to do an episiotomy (sp?) and had my lidocaine, scalpel and suture kit all set to go - and she popped it out. Nice bull calf for a first calf heifer.</p><p></p><p>All calves up and sucking unassisted within the standard 15 - 45 minutes.</p><p></p><p>That's the nice thing about having the calving area right outside the office window! </p><p></p><p>You can do what you want, but I truly believe a cow that can do this on her own is a better cow. I also believe that pulling when not necessary may very well be indicative of inexperience in the birthing process and how it truly works.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps you need to re-think your process for the following reasons.</p><p></p><p>God, Mom Nature and cows actually do know what they are doing and 99.99% of the time it is far better to stand back and do as little as possible.</p><p></p><p>Why? Because you will not always be there - that is an impossibility. If you cannot trust your animals to "do the right thing" in the vast number of cases you need to get rid of them and start over.</p><p></p><p>Everyone who runs cattle needs to breed towards the perfect push button cow - and sometimes helping forces us to miss a very important factor:</p><p></p><p><u>Is that cow really worth keeping?</u></p><p></p><p>In my personal opinion - if she cannot do it on her own she needs to go down the road. How do you know this if you pull at the first sign of labour? </p><p></p><p>Let me rephrase that - at the first sign of little feet?</p><p></p><p>You may actually be creating a herd of animals incapable of calving without help.</p><p></p><p>You may also be harming the cow. If you have not done so yet, you are - in my opinion - very lucky.</p><p></p><p>Hope this helps and I hope others who may read this pick up at least one or two small items that may help them down the road.</p><p></p><p>Regards,</p><p></p><p>Bez></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bez>, post: 366445, member: 6007"] OK - I will try one more time. Many possibilities, but here are a few - I will stay with normal presentations for this exercise: [b]Scenario one[/b] - two feet - the correct feet show - just the tips - about 90 minutes after water breaks. She is laying down but still restless and not truly determined to have that calf. She gets up - and of course the feet disappear. Do you pull? Hope not - she is not ready - even if she stands hunched over - not in trouble yet. She might stay like this for an hour before she starts again - no push and no worry. It looks worse than it is. [b]Scenario two[/b] - She is on her side and still has her head up and is pushing - lots of effort and two feet and a nose show up. I like this one because I now know the head is in "the channel" and not turned back. Suddenly she stops pushing. She has been at it for 45 minutes - intermittent and irregular pushing - some hard and some not so hard. She is tired, but she is not worn out and has some effort left in her yet. She may not be opened up enough. In fact she may even get up and walk around for a bit - a bit of a stretch and a bit of a break from labour. If she does, everything disappears again. I have seen this "break" take as long as an hour. Calf will be fine. Do you pull? Not me - not yet. [b]Scenario three[/b] - Cow is pushing and two feet are well out - hocks plainly visible and nose coming good. We are 35 minutes into the action. She gets tired and stops. She gets up and of course the head and even the feet may disappear - stands there hunched over for a few minutes - turns around lays down and starts to push. You going to pull? Not me. She has lots left in her. [b]Scenario four[/b] - 45 minutes into this she is finally pushing hard - hips come up off the ground and the head is straight out forward and coming high. This girl is getting serious now. The feet come and then a bit of nose. Looks good - but two or three more of those gut wrenching pushes and she lays flat out on her side -breathing hard. About three to 10 minutes later she repeats this - the real serious pushing - hips and fromt shoulders come up and head stretched out - no advance of feet and nose - stops and lays down hard and flat out. Do you pull? I do not - I [u][i][b]HELP!![/b][/i][/u] If she lets me I do it right there - even the wild ones will sometimes allow this - otherwise it is off to the squeeze. A double set of half hitches high up on the legs and I wait for her to push - when she does I pull as required. I never jack the calf out - I have and I can but it is poor technique in my opinion. I had all four of these happen to me this weekend while I was sitting here on CT and writing about "stuff". The hard birth ended up being unassisted - while I was prepping the squeeze and getting the "Doctor Frank" put together - I was even ready to do an episiotomy (sp?) and had my lidocaine, scalpel and suture kit all set to go - and she popped it out. Nice bull calf for a first calf heifer. All calves up and sucking unassisted within the standard 15 - 45 minutes. That's the nice thing about having the calving area right outside the office window! You can do what you want, but I truly believe a cow that can do this on her own is a better cow. I also believe that pulling when not necessary may very well be indicative of inexperience in the birthing process and how it truly works. Perhaps you need to re-think your process for the following reasons. God, Mom Nature and cows actually do know what they are doing and 99.99% of the time it is far better to stand back and do as little as possible. Why? Because you will not always be there - that is an impossibility. If you cannot trust your animals to "do the right thing" in the vast number of cases you need to get rid of them and start over. Everyone who runs cattle needs to breed towards the perfect push button cow - and sometimes helping forces us to miss a very important factor: [u]Is that cow really worth keeping?[/u] In my personal opinion - if she cannot do it on her own she needs to go down the road. How do you know this if you pull at the first sign of labour? Let me rephrase that - at the first sign of little feet? You may actually be creating a herd of animals incapable of calving without help. You may also be harming the cow. If you have not done so yet, you are - in my opinion - very lucky. Hope this helps and I hope others who may read this pick up at least one or two small items that may help them down the road. Regards, Bez> [/QUOTE]
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