Protective/aggressive cows

[Ky hills]

Coach g’s post about tagging the calf brings to mind a cow I had a few years ago. I didn’t want to take away from his post as this was a bit of a different situation, although similar in some details,
Before I sold off most of the cows I kept around 40-50 cows,
Disposition has always been an important factor for me. Even so I’ve always given a pass to cows that were protective even hyper protective of their calves at first as long as they settle back down in a week or two.
We have a lot black buzzards, and coyotes, and an occasional black bear around.
Well I used to buy 25-50, 500# or somewhere around that size heifers. I’d buy the heifers in the fall and early winter and have them bred in the spring and sell the next fall as bred heifers.
Occasionally, we’ll actually about every year 1or 2 of those heifers would be already be bred when I bought them.
That would knock them out of going into the heifer sale, so I’d just keep them and calve them out.
One year I had a BWF heifer that was bought in a group, she was the bottom end of the group. I got to noticing early part of spring it looked like she was making an udder.
Before long I knew she was going to be calving soon.
She was a little distant but nothing to really set off alarms about. When I figured she was right about calving I separated her and put her in a shed in barn. I wanted to have her up when she calved as I knew she was only somewhere between 15-18 months old.
She wasn’t overly thrilled about that but I’ve seen worse, just chalked it up to her not wanting to be by herself and wanting to be away to calve.
Seemed like she calmed down, before she calved. Then we some company and oh they wanted to see the new calf, which literally had just been born. She started circling and throwing her head, I told the people we better leave her and the calf alone. Later that evening I fed her
and proceeded to tag the calf while she was eating. I got my tagger and took hold of the calf next thing I knew she was on me. It happened so fast and I reckon the adrenaline instantly kicked in, I really didn’t even feel it when she hit me.
I must have instinctively stepped to the gate and climbed up it. I have no recollection of getting to the gate or initially climbing it, just stepping up a rung and getting a straddle of it and looking around and seeing her butting the gate and then looking up at me, while she’s swinging her head up and down, and tail a flipping around.
Needless to say that calf didn’t get tagged.
So I knew then she could get stirred up, but hoped she’d settle down, and I’d get the calf off of her at weaning and sell them both.
She didn’t settle down much it was like a fuse was lit. Had to stay out of her way in close quarters and try to keep another cow between me and her or she may come at me.
Well I got worried about how I’d get her loaded as that would have put me and others in close proximity to her and putting pressure on her so not a good combination. I let her slide she weaned off a good sized calf and calved back again. I remember one of her calves I managed to get an opportunity that she was a long was away and I got it tagged, but as soon as she realized it when the calf let out that distress bawl her she came like a freight train.
I kept her around for 3-4 calves always against my better judgment but afraid to get her cornered. Had to always be aware of where she was in or around the barn or lots and keep other cows between her and us,
The final straw came when we out one evening checking fall calves, she was a spring calver and was dry and still a ways off from calving. I walked down to check something and the cows were scattered out down the hill, she was a long ways off and down hill from me, so I thought surely she will stay put from that far off.
I was wrong I barely got back to the truck in time.
I knew then I’d put it off as long as I could. By then my wife was helping me and I was scared for her as she didn’t yet have a full understanding of the dangers.
She did by the time we got her loaded, I made sure she was out of the way and I climbed through barn stalls and pushed gates behind the cow. We did a lot praying beforehand and during and got her loaded without any major incident. We had another cow with her but she totally ignored the other cow.
Told the stockyards workers to be careful of that cow.
Edited to add to clarify, before we let her off the trailer told them to be careful because she was dangerous, and to sell her as weigh cow,

 

[gcreekrch]

I only recall one cow that we culled only because of her attitude. I bought out of a dispersal as a heavy bred in February. She was sorted off of a group because her head was a little high. Hauled her home and unloaded with about 60 other bought cows in a 60 acres mix of spruce and open ground. Didn’t come to the feed ground for 3 days. In due time she calved and I don’t recall any issues there but every time we worked cows she came out of the bunch hunting humans. That fall at preg test she went with the culls. I sold her by the lb even though she had bred back again.
The overprotective ones I dealt with until they had another strike against them. One in particular came in a load of cows from Alberta. When I went to tag her first calf here she became one of two cows ever to come overtop the quad to get me. Calf did get tagged that day but only after cow became respectful of the quad. Her next calf managed to get scours bad and became what we call a “flat calf”. I found it with her standing over it and was surprised she made no fuss when I picked it up and took it to the house. This was long before we had a heated shop and sick calves stayed in a Rubbermaid wheelbarrow until they became better or died. Mom would go to feed and then lay beside the house for the three days he calf was on IV and got good enough to go to the barn. It would lay in the sunshine in front of the barn and be put in during the night. Mom followed it to its new location and would lick it clean and bed beside it when she wasn’t eating. Couple more days of living on electrolytes and she got him to stand and suck. Two more days she would feed him and then wait for him to lay down before she wandered off. The day she decided he was strong enough to go with her it became a hands off deal again. She knew I was there to help.
She became one of two cows we ever lost to lightning the following year.

 

[Brute 23]

I was raised with cattle that didn't get handled much. To add to it the pens were crap. They were a circle with a chute and 2 gates. Neither gate could stop any thing and required human bodies to reinforce. It was a regular day to get chased. One bull came back on me and my cousin and I'll never forget when it locked on him. He reached up to a board at a little over 6' and launched his body from the ground in the pen to the ground outside the pen and only his two hands touched the fence. There was about 6" of light between his azz and the bulls head all the way up.

Another cow put 3 of us on the fence in the middle of the pen. We couslnt get away. I jumped down and put a 2" pipe across her dome and she fell to the ground. We all ran for the exterior fence to get out. She jumped the 6' pens to get out after that. I shot her the next day.

When I started managing the place I do now I didnt have any straight up people aggressive cows but about half were kind of tough to handle. A lot of F1s were one owner cows. I didnt want any one in the pens with me. As long as they would go to the right place, even if it was 100 mph, they stayed. I built pens to handle them.

As my son got older and able to help and I got tired of fighting with them I started culling hard. I saw my brothers attitude and didnt want that for my son. I wanted cattle to be fun and enjoyable so he didn't sell everything as soon as I died. I made sure to expose heifers to kids and more people and didnt keep any thing high headed. I ended up with a few bought ones here and there but they grew wheels pretty quick.

I dont fool with any thing I have to worry about any more. Life is to short. None are pets but they have to be able to pen and be handled. I also make it a point to expose them very young to "the system". It has made a world of difference and I take pride in how they handle. Im not impressed by cowboy stories any more or people getting hurt. I give a month or two grace period to cows with calves by giving them their space and not forcing a situation. Most the cows just hide their new calves or head out. Its a mutual agreement in my mind that says when I want you to mess with them, I'll bring them to you. I agree to that in return for them taking care of the calves so I dont have to.

I jumped my dad's azz pretty hard a couple years ago because they had some heifers in the keeper pen that were chasing me. I had two yearling bulls and they had a couple culls so were were gling to make a load. The ones chasing me were not with the culls. I had to drop my two bulls in with them to get them in a wad and run them back on the trailer. Before I drove off the conversation went some thing like... you dont decide what stays and goes... I said... I just did... it went back and forth and some where in the conversation it came up for me not to worry about him... and I responded... im not... its my mom that you will burden when you get hurt that im worried about... I can dump you azz in a home and walk away but she can't.

It was pretty touchy for a couple weeks after that. It was harsh, but true. My brother refused to help them in any way and didnt even want cows because of how it was when we were young. Since then they have culled a lot harder, they are spending time with the heifers, I've picked out the last several bulls, we have gotten new pens, etc. Its not perfect but a heck of a lot better. My dad has helped me work cows a lot since then. We did the Brahmans and couple weeks ago with my son and a friend in some new pens i set up and he admitted that it was easy. He also admitted the calving season is nice where you can work all the calves in one shot an be done. My dad, son and brother all worked our new cows a while back. I can not explain how huge that is. LoL

The financial side of handling those cattle and their bs is another factor. It just chain reacts, and grows, and becomes the norm. Its not until you break the cycle and look back that you see how expensive those cows really were. We are weaning whole groups of calves that the kids can go catch on the atvs and work. 10-15 years ago you couldnt put kids in the pen with weaned calves because some were going to be bouncing off the walls acting a fool.

 

[Rafter S]

I've written about it before, but back when my children were smaller I'd taken them with me to check cows at a rent pasture. My daughter was a toddler, so my son was 7-8 (they're in their 30's now). We were walking around looking at cows like we'd done many times before when I heard a noise. I looked that way and saw a cow running straight at us looking mad.

There wasn't time to think, but instinctively I picked up my daughter and stepped in front of my son. When she got about 8' from us I yelled real loud and she ran past us. We climbed through a cross fence, and I don't mind admitting I had to sit down and lean against a tree until my pulse rate got back to where it belonged.

I raised that cow. She had several calves before that one, and had never shown any aggression before. It's like she went insane all of a sudden. I called the folks that own the place and told them not to go in the pasture until I got her out of there.

My father and I went there with a trailer a few days later, but she didn't want to let us out of the truck. Finally I got lucky and she went to Dad's side of the truck and her calf was on my side. I jumped out of the truck, grabbed the calf, and got in the trailer with the calf and got the gate shut behind me before she got to us.

I closed the calf up in the front of the trailer, climbed up through the top, and got the back gate open. She ran in to get to the calf and I shut the gate on her.

I was never so glad to see the gate shut on a cow.

 

[Brute 23]

Yep, we were feeding cows twice with my son when he was younger that scared me. Once, we were cutting string and were about 100rds from a truck when one of my Brahmans popped out the brush between us and the truck ... new baby in tow. I instantly got a bad feeling. When she locked in on my son she wanted no part and was throwing a fit. We were out in the open. I told my son get right beside me and if I say run you run as hard as you can to the truck and call aome one. I literally thought I was about to have to go hand to hand with this cow. We looped way out with him like my shadow and me calling to her like I usually do when I feed. It was a very bad deal.

Another time my buddy had his kids out in the pasture and I kept telling him dont let them get down we have a bunch of new calves... dont let them get down we have a bunch of new calves. Every time we would turn around one was trying ro get down and he wasnt really concerned. You could see he was frustrated that I kept telling him and I was getting piseed that I kept having to tell him. Finally we stopped at a deer feeder and were talking as he worked on some thing. He went to mess with the feeder and I could tell one the boys wanted to get down. He wasnt watching. I started moving toward the kid and I looked at the cattle and saw one not liking it. I start getting close and about that time the cow goes for the kid. To show how close it was I kicked the cow across the side of the head by her nose with my left foot as I turned my back to her and could grab his son and throw him up on the atv. He was just wide eyed and frozen. His son was shook up and I was pissed. He got a... thats why I kept saying... with quite a bit of attitude from me. I was not happy.

 

[Dave]

The thing is that cows like that leave. No question asked. At the sale the kill cow buyers get to decide which plant she goes to. It is one thing to be less than friendly when you get a hold of her calf. Totally different if she comes hunting you because she has a new calf.

 

[Brute 23]

The thing is that cows like that leave. No question asked. At the sale the kill cow buyers get to decide which plant she goes to. It is one thing to be less than friendly when you get a hold of her calf. Totally different if she comes hunting you because she has a new calf.

That is well said. Big difference.

 

[coachg]

Don’t know about the rest of you but I never turn my back on any cow or bull in close quarters . If I’m in wrapping a bale of hay or working cattle . We’ve got several dog gentle but you never know .

 

[SBMF 2015]

I was raised with cattle that didn't get handled much. To add to it the pens were crap. They were a circle with a chute and 2 gates. Neither gate could stop any thing and required human bodies to reinforce. It was a regular day to get chased. One bull came back on me and my cousin and I'll never forget when it locked on him. He reached up to a board at a little over 6' and launched his body from the ground in the pen to the ground outside the pen and only his two hands touched the fence. There was about 6" of light between his azz and the bulls head all the way up.

Another cow put 3 of us on the fence in the middle of the pen. We couslnt get away. I jumped down and put a 2" pipe across her dome and she fell to the ground. We all ran for the exterior fence to get out. She jumped the 6' pens to get out after that. I shot her the next day.

When I started managing the place I do now I didnt have any straight up people aggressive cows but about half were kind of tough to handle. A lot of F1s were one owner cows. I didnt want any one in the pens with me. As long as they would go to the right place, even if it was 100 mph, they stayed. I built pens to handle them.

As my son got older and able to help and I got tired of fighting with them I started culling hard. I saw my brothers attitude and didnt want that for my son. I wanted cattle to be fun and enjoyable so he didn't sell everything as soon as I died. I made sure to expose heifers to kids and more people and didnt keep any thing high headed. I ended up with a few bought ones here and there but they grew wheels pretty quick.

I dont fool with any thing I have to worry about any more. Life is to short. None are pets but they have to be able to pen and be handled. I also make it a point to expose them very young to "the system". It has made a world of difference and I take pride in how they handle. Im not impressed by cowboy stories any more or people getting hurt. I give a month or two grace period to cows with calves by giving them their space and not forcing a situation. Most the cows just hide their new calves or head out. Its a mutual agreement in my mind that says when I want you to mess with them, I'll bring them to you. I agree to that in return for them taking care of the calves so I dont have to.

I jumped my dad's azz pretty hard a couple years ago because they had some heifers in the keeper pen that were chasing me. I had two yearling bulls and they had a couple culls so were were gling to make a load. The ones chasing me were not with the culls. I had to drop my two bulls in with them to get them in a wad and run them back on the trailer. Before I drove off the conversation went some thing like... you dont decide what stays and goes... I said... I just did... it went back and forth and some where in the conversation it came up for me not to worry about him... and I responded... im not... its my mom that you will burden when you get hurt that im worried about... I can dump you azz in a home and walk away but she can't.

It was pretty touchy for a couple weeks after that. It was harsh, but true. My brother refused to help them in any way and didnt even want cows because of how it was when we were young. Since then they have culled a lot harder, they are spending time with the heifers, I've picked out the last several bulls, we have gotten new pens, etc. Its not perfect but a heck of a lot better. My dad has helped me work cows a lot since then. We did the Brahmans and couple weeks ago with my son and a friend in some new pens i set up and he admitted that it was easy. He also admitted the calving season is nice where you can work all the calves in one shot an be done. My dad, son and brother all worked our new cows a while back. I can not explain how huge that is. LoL

The financial side of handling those cattle and their bs is another factor. It just chain reacts, and grows, and becomes the norm. Its not until you break the cycle and look back that you see how expensive those cows really were. We are weaning whole groups of calves that the kids can go catch on the atvs and work. 10-15 years ago you couldnt put kids in the pen with weaned calves because some were going to be bouncing off the walls acting a fool.

I started to cull on attitude when my dad retired and wanted to help me out more. Then my kids got old enough to want to help. The cows don’t even hardly even get to look cross wise anymore.

It’s funny/interesting; the place I used to manage. As I improved the handling setup to deal with crazy stuff the attitude of the cows improved.

 

[Travlr]

When I was going to school they said docility was one of the most dependably heritable traits. I don't know what they think of that today. Everything seems to change over time.

I don't trust anything that outweighs me. And I built my corrals to handle my animals so I don't have to tussle with them.

I had a bought Angus heifer once that had some kind of attitude for dogs. She would chase my Australian shepherd right off the quad and out of the field if I wasn't there to head her off. She just didn't tolerate dogs.

A couple of years ago I bought a Jersey heifer I was gonna turn into hamburger and when I got her home she went after a ewe with three lambs just like that black heifer went after dogs. She'd roll that ewe and the lambs would be under her feet and I thought sure she'd kill the ewe or stomp the lambs to death, but I managed to get in there with a sorting stick and keep her off the sheep and get them separated into a small enclosure. The heifer would patrol that enclosure looking for a way in to get at the sheep. I sold her to a neighbor for what I had in her, just to get rid of her. About two years later, after he got her first calf, he said someone stole her. At least she disappeared...

 

[RDFF]

I used to milk cows for a large Holstein herd here. They kept them out in the pasture in the afternoons, I'd have to bring them in to get milked. Had a cleanup bull running with them. My son (about 7) went with me one afternoon, we went to get them up, herd about 500' out yet, bull in front... I saw him eyeing us up, bawling low, pawing. I put my son behind me and stood still... we were probably 250' or so from any fence. I told him, if I tell you to, you run and don't look back, run as fast as you can and get on the other side of that fence. Bull came at a dead run, cows following him, son is whimpering, I told him to stop it, and be ready to run. "What are you gonna do Dad?" "I'm gonna have to try to distract him from you so you can get out of here. You listen now! If I say run, you run and don't look back!"

Fortunately, that bull stopped about 20' out, and we didn't have an issue, but it could have been a pretty bad deal, and I was pretty sure I was gonna have to try to out maneuver him... and that may not have gone very well.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

When I was going to school they said docility was one of the most dependably heritable traits. I don't know what they think of that today. Everything seems to change over time.

I've heard that too, but don't really believe it.

My wife has a belted cow that is as calm as can be will eat from your hand, loves getting scratched, my kids ride around on her, etc. Every one of her 10 calves here have been temperamental high headed crazy basta*ds. Docility wasnt inherited by any of her offspring.

I've got a few other docile quiet cows that their heifers hit the road every time because they aren't docile.

 

[Ky hills]

I've heard that too, but don't really believe it.

My wife has a belted cow that is as calm as can be will eat from your hand, loves getting scratched, my kids ride around on her, etc. Every one of her 10 calves here have been temperamental high headed crazy basta*ds. Docility wasnt inherited by any of her offspring.

I've got a few other docile quiet cows that their heifers hit the road every time because they aren't docile.

Genetics can manifest in strange ways, sometimes seemingly skipping a generation,
I’ve not had much experience with Belted Galloways but have heard that disposition is not one of their strengths.
The pair that I had were skittish. They were expert kickers too,
Back on the skipping a generation, I’ve heard people say that back when Limousins were so popular at first that sometimes a bull would be fairly docile but then his calves could be crazy,
My first registered Angus female was a 1st calf heifer, with a bull calf at side, bought from a dispersal sale.
The bull she was by was VDAR Lucy’s Boy. He had been real popular, but I didn’t get the memo, that he earned a reputation for siring crazy cattle. My heifer was decent, certainly not a pet, but not noticeably wild, aggressive or even skittish. My plan was to keep her bull calf sired by Sitz Traveler 8180 ( the eventual sire of SAV Final Answer, and SAV 004)
That bull calf was rank by the time he was a year old,
Most time I have seen a strong correlation between a bad actor cow and her calves as I reckon they get it honest from learning from her reactions.

 

[Travlr]

I've heard that too, but don't really believe it.

My wife has a belted cow that is as calm as can be will eat from your hand, loves getting scratched, my kids ride around on her, etc. Every one of her 10 calves here have been temperamental high headed crazy basta*ds. Docility wasnt inherited by any of her offspring.

I've got a few other docile quiet cows that their heifers hit the road every time because they aren't docile.

Yeah, I've seen those kinds of cases too. There was a very famous and well used Limousin bull back in the early 80's that was noted for docility, and his calves were docile too. But the next generation was batshit crazy. Word got out and he got a bad reputation for throwing cranky genetics.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I’ve not had much experience with Belted Galloways but have heard that disposition is not one of their strengths.

My wife got the couple belties from two different breeder who would tell you just the opposite. They each had a couple hundred head of overly docile in your pocket type cattle.

I've got other angus and simmental cows who's offspring are nothing like their parents either. So I don't put a bunch of stock in docility being passed down.

 

[Ky hills]

My wife got the couple belties from two different breeder who would tell you just the opposite. They each had a couple hundred head of overly docile in your pocket type cattle.

I've got other angus and simmental cows who's offspring are nothing like their parents either. So I don't put a bunch of stock in docility being passed down.

I understand sone being docile and others not.
I had a dog gentle herd of Charolais, when most people were saying they were crazy. Occasionally, I’d get a hold of a wild and crazy one, cull them out and move on.
The most docile bull I’ve ever had of all was a Limousin, we all know their reputation, yet he nor his calves were lik the reputation.
I believe there’s a lot of factors that go into disposition.
Genetics. Management and handling practices, environment, all that can play a part.
I’ve had a pretty good success rate of getting calves say under 500# to calm down and be what I consider good disposition, the older they get the less responsive they are. Still good success with 600# but seems like much over that it’s hit and miss. Bigger animals much over a year or mature cows they pretty much are already set in their ways. They may learn a routine but are still going to be skittish if they are already inclined to be that way.

 

[Rmc]

If my cows aren’t protective of their calves the go to town.
I expect my cows to be defensive and take care of their calves.
I don’t and won’t tolerate a herd with the Holstein type mentality. Calve and not give 2cents about the calf or what danger it may be in.
To m protective mother ability is totally different from being high headed or always hunting you down.

 

[Ky hills]

If my cows aren’t protective of their calves the go to town.
I expect my cows to be defensive and take care of their calves.
I don’t and won’t tolerate a herd with the Holstein type mentality. Calve and not give 2cents about the calf or what danger it may be in.
To m protective mother ability is totally different from being high headed or always hunting you down.

Yes I want cows to be protective of their young calves, that’s a desirable trait in my opinion. I also want them to simmer down after a week or two. Don’t want any perpetual head hunters.
On the subject of Holsteins, when I was raising dairy calves. I was getting all the calves from a dairy. Most times they’d have the calves in a separate stall or in an empty wire corn crib. Sometimes not. Once had to get one out of the barn where the cows were. As I was walking the calf out of the barn lot I realized the mother cow was coming up behind me fast. I got to the gate and there was a space between the gatepost and corn crib wide enough to get the calf through easy. Got it through and the cow was almost to me then bawling bellering like and I climbed the gate instead of opening it. As I was climbing she was ramming into the gate. Just as I got over and on the ground I turned around to see the cow had jumped up on the gate right where I had climbed over. She finally backed off and got back down. She never touched me but if she’d a come down against me on the gate it would have been bad.

 

[Rmc]

Yes I want cows to be protective of their young calves, that’s a desirable trait in my opinion. I also want them to simmer down after a week or two. Don’t want any perpetual head hunters.
On the subject of Holsteins, when I was raising dairy calves. I was getting all the calves from a dairy. Most times they’d have the calves in a separate stall or in an empty wire corn crib. Sometimes not. Once had to get one out of the barn where the cows were. As I was walking the calf out of the barn lot I realized the mother cow was coming up behind me fast. I got to the gate and there was a space between the gatepost and corn crib wide enough to get the calf through easy. Got it through and the cow was almost to me then bawling bellering like and I climbed the gate instead of opening it. As I was climbing she was ramming into the gate. Just as I got over and on the ground I turned around to see the cow had jumped up on the gate right where I had climbed over. She finally backed off and got back down. She never touched me but if she’d a come down against me on the gate it would have been bad.

Yes there are some Holsteins that are protective mothers, but as a breed it is something they have been breeding away from for generations.

 

[Brute 23]

I started to cull on attitude when my dad retired and wanted to help me out more. Then my kids got old enough to want to help. The cows don’t even hardly even get to look cross wise anymore.

It’s funny/interesting; the place I used to manage. As I improved the handling setup to deal with crazy stuff the attitude of the cows improved.

You are absolutely correct about that.