Proponent of higher birth weights.

[southernultrablack]

Just curious as to who on here like higher birthweights, why and where you draw the line as being to high. I'm talking heifers and cows.
I believe that you can breed for calving ease to much and make for too small of cattle, I also think that for calves to sell as feeders, I would want those no less than 80# and up to 100# in grown cows. I would like my heifers to have calves in the low 70's to around 80#.

 

[Son of Butch]

I hate dead calves... and calves born alive after a difficult birth have less vigor and higher death rate to weaning
under 101 lbs on cows
under 85 lbs on heifers as long as they come easy for the heifers age/size (I prefer mid to low 70s for most to be safe)

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

SUB - I agree with your weights. I believe in growing out your heifer so that she can handle a decent size calf. Having said that, I also believe in breeding them to reasonably easy calving bulls. In my breed, we have lots of choices of "spread" bulls - easy calving with great growth. I know a cow is supposed to be able to easily handle 8% of her body weight, not sure what the rule is for heifers.
But, you are absolutely right - if you continually breed to super easy calving bulls, you end up with a herd that is going to have lots of calving difficulties because the dam is too small.

 

[callmefence]

I hate dead calves... and calves born alive after a difficult birth have less vigor and higher death rate to weaning
under 101 lbs on cows
under 85 lbs on heifers as long as they come easy for the heifers age/size (I prefer mid to low 70s for most to be safe)

I agree with butch today. We want big calves to sell. But a worn out calf and cow = a bad start. I'd rather have a smaller bouncing calf and a proud healthy mama.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You can easily have both.

 

[Nesikep]

I have many bigger cows that will drop 120-140 lb calves without a second thought.. it's not what I aim for, but that's what they're going to do no matter what I try so what the heck..
On heifers I like 70-80 lb, add 10 lb BW for every year of age... I try to build the MCE more than CED, and also look for the build of the calf that is easier to birth..
I haven't had to assist a birth (properly presented) in a cow in a very long time

Posted this before, but this is how you drop a 140 lb calf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwcnbPEmnRs

 

[dun]

if you continually breed to super easy calving bulls, you end up with a herd that is going to have lots of calving difficulties because the dam is too small.

Not necessarily. As you well know, there is a lot more to calving ease then light weight calves. There are easy calving bulls that are poster boys for daughters calving difficulties. But there are just as many that have low birth weight with more than adequate pelvic opening. That's where high accuracy direct and maternal calving ease EPDs come into play. But just like wearing a belt and suspenders we still pelvic measure all yearlings before breeding.

 

[Son of Butch]

I haven't had to assist a birth (properly presented) in a cow in a very long time.

Heavier birth weight calves have a higher rate of problem presentations
(i.e. one foot back, head to the side ect.)
Due to calf not having enough room to get into the proper position to enter the birth canal prior to the onset of labor.

I'm just going from memory here on 1 MARC study that I read on angus x hereford cows, but as I recall it concluded
after a cow had two or more calves, birth weight had no effect on % calving difficulty until b.w. went over 110 lbs

I remember jokingly thinking to myself... that's because they killed off all the cows that had too small of pelvic areas
when they calved them as heifers. (but there might Be some truth to culling having been done after 1st or 2nd calves)

p.s.
imo under 65 lbs is too small and 77.7 lbs is ideal for properly grown 1st calf heifers because 7 is a lucky number...

 

[Nesikep]

in 25 years, I've never had a single leg or head back... I've had some twins with the second one having both hind legs facing forward, or just normal reverse presentation.. Reverse presentations are always a little harder on the cow for the same size calf.. just doesn't seem to stimulate contractions at all and they can just stand there and do nothing for hours

 

[Rafter S]

p.s.
imo under 65 lbs is too small and 77.7 lbs is ideal for properly grown 1st calf heifers because 7 is a lucky number...

I'm going to respectfully disagree. For a 2-year old heifer I don't think there's such thing as "too small" as long as it's a healthy calf.

 

[Son of Butch]

p.s.
imo under 65 lbs is too small and 77.7 lbs is ideal for properly grown 1st calf heifers because 7 is a lucky number...

I'm going to respectfully disagree. For a 2-year old heifer I don't think there's such thing as "too small" as long as it's a healthy calf.

I know that's what I tell myself too... as long as it's alive and healthy... that's the main thing.
But I do end up liking the calves better from my 1st calf heifers that start out over 70 lbs without any problems.

 

[dun]

I've always claimed that I don;t challenge the cow/heifer to birth a big calf, I challenge them to wean a big calf.

 

[Nesikep]

Agreed, weaning weight is the measuring stick to use.
Birthweights, for cold climates I hear there is such a thing as "too small"... For good cows, I have found absolutely no ill effects from the 90-110 lb range.. calves are vigorous, and grow like heck...
On high milking cows, I think they're better off with a bigger calf that drinks a little more

 

[MRRherefords]

The term we use on our place is get em on the ground then grow em. We prefer everything under the 95 lbs. weight limit and we pair our animals to try to keep it that way. We have not had any difficulty with calving in a number of years.

 

[cowgirl8]

We raised flec sims in the 80s....I was just getting into cattle, husbands family had cattle but were kind of citified cattle people.
In the late 90s we started getting angus bulls.. I can say, not really having to worry about calving problems is so awesome. Although, when it comes to pulling a calf i'm very experienced at it. As our flec blood gets diluted, this is the first year we did not have to pull a calf....knock on wood. We did pull a few heifer calves, but were mostly because we got tired of waiting and it was getting dark...
I do not like seeing a big calf.. Not only is it hard on the calf, but its hard on the cow. You're more likely to have prolapse problems in your cows as they age....

 

[TCRanch]

I've always claimed that I don;t challenge the cow/heifer to birth a big calf, I challenge them to wean a big calf.

Amen!

 

[MRRherefords]

I've always claimed that I don;t challenge the cow/heifer to birth a big calf, I challenge them to wean a big calf.

I love that. :clap: I'm going to write that down and put it in the barn.

 

[Brute 23]

LBW bulls have a higher resale value also.

 

[Nesikep]

LBW bulls have a higher resale value also.

only if you can find a market for them to go back to work when they're pushing the limits on their own size for what you'd want on a heifer.. Most older bulls are meat value

 

[Brute 23]

LBW bulls have a higher resale value also.

only if you can find a market for them to go back to work when they're pushing the limits on their own size for what you'd want on a heifer.. Most older bulls are meat value

I think there is a larger market for LBW bulls in general, not just heifer bulls. As seen above, most people like the comfort of not worrying about calving even on grown cows.

Dun is dead on. I have some pics of calves from an Angus bull we had. When I first saw his calves I thought the guy screwed me and sold me some kind of miniature but they come on and look as good as any. I paid $2200 for that bull, delivered. Sold him a couple years later for $1800 to a friend. Wish I would have kept him.

Here is one of his newborn calves across an F1 cow. What is that calf, #65? The one to the right is a month or two old.


Here are his calves across 2 heifers. The pics are a couple months apart.