Progressive ataxia

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Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
This is strickly MY thoughts/opinion and may be obsolete in modern breeding programs:
The breed is known for growth. That's IT. Not good milkers. Bulls have small SC (which I would have to think that means low fertility in females). Used to be poor temperament, but has improved. They do have good bone. Poor marbling breed.
They have your white/light color.
I understand you need to have a more marketable product. Really too bad you MG's are hurting you in the sale barn. You do have some great MG's. Doesn't the Charolais color hurt you in the sale ring? or do buyer's like the smokies?
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@Jeanne - Simme Valley its been around 30 years since I was in the thick of the registered Charolais business. I often heard those stories of terrible dispositions in the early years of the breed in the US, and no doubt it was true early on. I can honestly say that overall Charolais have been the easiest and best breed that I have ever worked with. Disposition wise they have both Angus, Hereford beat.
With most bloodlines of the Charolais I had milking ability wasn't an issue, in fact had to watch the calves close for scours in the spring as the cows gave so much milk. There were exceptions, some of the popular show ring bloodlines of that day looked like they were more Chianina than Charolais and had the height, narrow gut and no milk to go along. Out side of those two hot bloodlines milk wasn't an issue.
At that time birthweights were through the roof and as such would have a dead head slow calf every now and then, but again it was mainly from one of those popular show lines of the time.
A combination of getting a hold of a hard calving bull and the black hided craze got me away from Charolais.
A lot of folks used those lines and as such when I was ending my time with them milk EPD's were the big new trend of the time to try to breed milk back into them.
Back then the breed was heavily influenced by the show ring and a handful of big money movers and shakers set the bar.
 
TwoByrdsMG said:
Supposedly PB Registered Charolais cow. The entire reason I bought her through that online sale was because she was sired by the AI sire- he is known to produce very good daughters. Talked with the breeder who hasn't gotten back to me about his theory but he had two walking sires that I know about.
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?? Does the Association list an ear tattoo for the cow? Have you checked the cow for an ear tattoo?
 
moses388 said:
Might progressive ataxia show up in other breeds of cattle?
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Yes, any defect can show up through up-grading/cross breeding. In the Simmental breed, any animal upgraded using Angus, Chi, Shorthorn, Maine, etc all have to be DNA tested for defects before they are registered - unless the animal used in the cross was already DNA tested clean.
 
The sellers sounds like an outfit I would avoid like the plaque in the future. If you bought a heifer from me at the commercial market price, it would not be DNA'd and registered, but I assure you all breeding age cows and bulls here are DNA'd as free of identified defects or they have been tested to confirm parentage by tested animals, so you would not have much risk.
If you paid me for a registered cow or bull, it would have all data turned in and in most cases be DNA'd. I would offer to take that heifer back and give you a full refund, if you bought a registered cow that didn't DNA to the parents I had claimed. These are also things I expect from any breeder I buy cows or bulls from. Being from Oregon myself I am really curious where your new cattle came from.
 
Katpau said:
The sellers sounds like an outfit I would avoid like the plaque in the future. If you bought a heifer from me at the commercial market price, it would not be DNA'd and registered, but I assure you all breeding age cows and bulls here are DNA'd as free of identified defects or they have been tested to confirm parentage by tested animals, so you would not have much risk.
If you paid me for a registered cow or bull, it would have all data turned in and in most cases be DNA'd. I would offer to take that heifer back and give you a full refund, if you bought a registered cow that didn't DNA to the parents I had claimed. These are also things I expect from any breeder I buy cows or bulls from. Being from Oregon myself I am really curious where your new cattle came from.
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Talked with the breeder over the phone a couple times since receiving the results. Pulled hair again on the cow and having her retested (at Neogen since they have DNA on the sire to verify).

We both suspect that the lab (Neogen) mixed up the samples (which means they have screwed up or lost half the samples I sent to them). Only sent one sample this time to reduce the probability of another lab mix-up. Found out the hard way that I have no authority on anything I send them since association is sending me the paperwork for the samples.

Even more curious... I sent in a request for testing on a donor at the same time and that donor's results came back the same day in sequence with my results (as PAF). I requested that the donor have her DNA verified to her original DNA but I'm not authorized to do it unless I get permission from the owner. Said owner had no issue sending me the PAF results but ignored me when I asked for DNA re-verification.

This gives me very little faith on ANY results from that lab... but at least a few of the ones I sent were sire verified.

Bought her from a breeder in Kansas that is actually dispersing this year (family operation it sounded like the father is dispersing but potentially son is keeping the herd name?). He said (though I have no way to verify this) that those heifers were at his house with no white bull within 5 miles. Penned up and 7 out of 8 took to AI so he did not run a cleanup bull and kept the heifers there to keep the grass down around the house. He gave me the AI date on the dam and said that it was the second cycle that she was bred to Resource. She calved at 286 days post AI date. He used one other AI bull on the group of heifers and that sire was not verified either.

Sent hair for the first "lost sample" and another one for the Charolais cleanup bull to UC Davis. Samples arrived at UC Davis and Neogen on the same day but I'm betting that UC Davis will have results out first.

If this gets to be any more of a headache I may just send them all the the sale and get on with my life.
 
Although it doesn't happen often, labs do make mistakes. Hopefully that is what happened to you and parentage will be confirmed as the AI sire. The gestation would seem to indicate she most likely was the result of AI, unless of course there was another bull present when she was turned out after AI. It could also be a case of the AI technician grabbing the wrong straw. That happens from time to time. I know a young man that had a nice Angus heifer awarded to him as part of our Livestock Clubs "Heifer Replacement Program". She was suppose to be bred to a calving ease Angus bull, so imagine his surprise when a large white calf was born. It turns out the AI tech had both an Angus and a Charolais in his tank with similar names. He admitted he had probably grabbed the wrong straw. The calf went on to win Grand Champion at County fair and sold for a crazy amount, so it all worked out for the best.

I have seen labs make mistakes. I remember a time when the results were switched in a report. It was caught and corrected pretty quick though. Another time I was looking at a list of carriers of a recently identified defect with AAA. I saw that a large group of calves sired by the same bull, but out of a variety of cows, had come back as about 50% being carriers. I then looked up their common sire and he was supposedly tested clean of that defect. I contacted AAA and pointed out that it was highly unlikely that almost all of those cows had been carriers of a relatively infrequent defect, which would have been the only other way to produce that many carrier calves. They looked into it and the bull was retested. He was indeed a carrier. I don't know if the lab made a mistake or the bulls owner mislabeled the sample.
 
Katpau said:
I don't know if the lab made a mistake or the bulls owner mislabeled the sample.
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Associations make mistakes, too. I do not use an Association. I test directly with Neogen and I am happy with the results so far.
 
Finally! The AICA has added the PA test information for all animals (if they have been tested).

Some heavily used AI/ET bulls are carriers with 1400+ reg, 1900+ reg, 2600+ reg, 4100+ reg progeny.

But somehow only 0.5% of animals tested have been PAA (affected), ~13% PAC (carriers) and the majority PAF (free)?

A lot more really good AI/ET bulls came back Free luckily.
 

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