Profitability

[Bright Raven]

When I took "Agriculture" in high school, the instructor was Ray Hogg. Profitability was a common theme in all his lessons. He often stated that most farming operations are more about lifestyle than profit and that most of us would make more money in almost any occupation than Agriculture.

I did not pursue a career in Agriculture. Having returned to "hobby farming" in retirement, I often think back on Mr. Hogg's teachings. As a member of our county Cattle Association Board, I get an opportunity to meet a lot of cattle producers. Very few (almost none) are profitable enough to justify a cattle operation for any other purpose than "lifestyle".

Having said that, the conundrum is that many of those who pursue it for "lifestyle" express more frustration with their "lifestyle" than pleasure.

I enjoy my property. I enjoy cows. In my world, they fill the role of pets. I work my calves and get tons of pleasure from that vocation. My cows are gentle beasts. Easy to work. I enjoy the AI operation I have built. Etc, etc, etc.

For 95 % of the folks I see with cattle, few are making a profit. And few truly seem to enjoy it. I sometimes wonder if the industry is on the threshold of a mass exodus.

I wonder what others think!

 

[jltrent]

Very little profit, but plenty of work/expenses. I can see the industry, especially for the small farms getting out.

 

[ddd75]

every industry has people who are profitable and not.


Of course you're not seeing people being profitable. Your neighbors are people who inherited land and don't care for making a ton of money / too lazy to try.

 

[Bright Raven]

every industry has people who are profitable and not.


Of course you're not seeing people being profitable. Your neighbors are people who inherited land and don't care for making a ton of money / too lazy to try.

To large extent, I see that also.

 

[kentuckyguy]

I just think in the grand scheme of things it’s really hard for a small producer to really make a profit. The reason I chose to pursue AI and slowly going to a registered herd is to try and add more value to what I am raising.

I am blessed in that my father in law has a farm that’s paid for and a lot of infrastructure already in place.

I just don’t see being able to ever make a lot of money if you really keep up with things like you should. We have lots of fences that are over 50 years old and need lots of attention. I just dont see being able to ever make much money when you consider buying good fencing, good mineral, vaccination and worming supplies, fertilize and lime, seed for reseeding areas, and the other cost that come along such as feeders and hay rings. This is not counting hay baling equipment.

I look at it as a long term investment that I enjoy. My tax lady told me last year that I would have lost almost $11,000 had I not been farming. If I can get the cattle to at least pay for their keep I see it that I’m ahead. I’m putting money the government would have received into something I own and have as an asset.

If nothing else cattle are a walking savings account. A guy with 20 cows and calves walking around has a pretty good buffer should a some hard times ever come their way.

 

[callmefence]

I have several small groups on two owned and five rented places. The groups farthest from the house, that live in understocked pasture and receive almost no care, vaccines or even minerals.....no doubt about it make the most money....hands down.
He// to my knowledge Red never fed a
Roll of hay. None.....
The usual small operation runs around overworking, overfeeding etc. He pours his profit out on the ground in expensive minerals a glossy add says he needs. To get shyt out on the ground. He'll argue to high heaven they have to have it.
He prowls the tractor supply and the rural King looking for something to spend his money on.

Make no doubt though.. the profitable way for the small producer is headed off a cliff. As the rage shifts towards maximum yield and fatty marbled meat. The beef cow will indeed become incapable of being able to survive without constant feeding and medical. It will need help calving and mothering. It will become just like those fat white chickens. Then who will make the money......I personally despise the modern #########because that's exactly where that breed is taking us.

 

[Ky hills]

I am probably in the minority here in that I am a full time farmer. Problem is it isn't profitable at least not yet, keep hoping some of that will come. In puts are pretty high, and our volume of cattle hasn't been at the right times to enjoy the good times. Trying to position a little better these days. I often think about I should have got into something else, but have had health problems and holding down a job would be near impossible. I have always loved cattle and that has kept me going. Right now it seems like we are maintaining, we aren't extravagant and get by on less than most would. We do eat pretty good though beef in the freezer and if we have a good garden year vegetables. We are in the process of growing our herd utilizing some land more. I hate to see land being sold for houses. This area has been so developed that you can't go far down any road without seeing a house. That said there is still quite a few holding on and I do know of a few youngins in their 20's and 30's farming. By and large though most of the farmers are getting up in years.

 

[backhoeboogie]

When I downsized the profit was huge. Profit was marginal while in operation but the cows were paying for the land and I was putting a few nickels in my pocket. Just building equity and expanding. We did have one really bad year where we ended in the red. The difference may be that I did not have to rely on the cattle for a living.

ddd75 I did inherit some land years later. I've never used it for anything and it is 200 miles away. Nephews hunt deer on it.

I have hired out many times. We have sold tons and tons (literally) of patio stone and building stone and that was just another sideline. I've sold cedar posts. I have sold firewood. All of this came from the land. If I did not have the land I would not have had the opportunity.

Each time I have bought land I have sold it for more than double what I paid. In the big picture of things, I have been very blessed. The work was hard but the rewards were good.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have several small groups on two owned and five rented places. The groups farthest from the house, that live in understocked pasture and receive almost no care, vaccines or even minerals.....no doubt about it make the most money....hands down.
He// to my knowledge Red never fed a
Roll of hay. None.....
The usual small operation runs around overworking, overfeeding etc. He pours his profit out on the ground in expensive minerals a glossy add says he needs. To get shyt out on the ground. He'll argue to high heaven they have to have it.
He prowls the tractor supply and the rural King looking for something to spend his money on.

Make no doubt though.. the profitable way for the small producer is headed off a cliff. As the rage shifts towards maximum yield and fatty marbled meat. The beef cow will indeed become incapable of being able to survive without constant feeding and medical. It will need help calving and mothering. It will become just like those fat white chickens. Then who will make the money......I personally despise the modern #########because that's exactly where that breed is taking us.

Andy

I agree. It has become a PERFORMANCE driven model. Cattle Producers are taught by the industry that to achieve PERFORMANCE, one must vaccinate, worm, control flies, ticks and mites, use mineral that is chelated, feed a high protein diet, etc.

There is truth in those tenets if you want maximum PERFORMANCE. A cow that breeds back in less than 90 days post partum, produces lots of milk, grows a calf that can put on a 100 pounds of growth per month, etc etc. The industry advocates PUSHING beef cattle to levels beyond what Red ever expected.

 

[True Grit Farms]

We grossed twice as much per calf selling private treaty and at the specialty sales, and netted the same as we do now. And that's not taking anything out for all the extra time involved. There's so many folks in the seedstock business that for us it's not worth all the extra work and expense. If the government would just get out of the way, a man that has the facilities and knows how to cut meat can make a dang good living producing, processing and marketing their beef.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I have several small groups on two owned and five rented places. The groups farthest from the house, that live in understocked pasture and receive almost no care, vaccines or even minerals.....no doubt about it make the most money....hands down.
He// to my knowledge Red never fed a
Roll of hay. None.....
The usual small operation runs around overworking, overfeeding etc. He pours his profit out on the ground in expensive minerals a glossy add says he needs. To get shyt out on the ground. He'll argue to high heaven they have to have it.
He prowls the tractor supply and the rural King looking for something to spend his money on.

Make no doubt though.. the profitable way for the small producer is headed off a cliff. As the rage shifts towards maximum yield and fatty marbled meat. The beef cow will indeed become incapable of being able to survive without constant feeding and medical. It will need help calving and mothering. It will become just like those fat white chickens. Then who will make the money......I personally despise the modern #########because that's exactly where that breed is taking us.

Andy

I agree. It has become a PERFORMANCE driven model. Cattle Producers are taught by the industry that to achieve PERFORMANCE, one must vaccinate, worm, control flies, ticks and mites, use mineral that is chelated, feed a high protein diet, etc.

There is truth in those tenets if you want maximum PERFORMANCE. A cow that breeds back in less than 90 days post partum, produces lots of milk, grows a calf that can put on a 100 pounds of growth per month, etc etc. The industry advocates PUSHING beef cattle to levels beyond what Red ever expected.

Are we talking profitability or growing the economy? The government wants us to spend and to create jobs and produce cheap food. To me it's very apperent that government doesn't care if farmers make money.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have several small groups on two owned and five rented places. The groups farthest from the house, that live in understocked pasture and receive almost no care, vaccines or even minerals.....no doubt about it make the most money....hands down.
He// to my knowledge Red never fed a
Roll of hay. None.....
The usual small operation runs around overworking, overfeeding etc. He pours his profit out on the ground in expensive minerals a glossy add says he needs. To get shyt out on the ground. He'll argue to high heaven they have to have it.
He prowls the tractor supply and the rural King looking for something to spend his money on.

Make no doubt though.. the profitable way for the small producer is headed off a cliff. As the rage shifts towards maximum yield and fatty marbled meat. The beef cow will indeed become incapable of being able to survive without constant feeding and medical. It will need help calving and mothering. It will become just like those fat white chickens. Then who will make the money......I personally despise the modern #########because that's exactly where that breed is taking us.

Andy

I agree. It has become a PERFORMANCE driven model. Cattle Producers are taught by the industry that to achieve PERFORMANCE, one must vaccinate, worm, control flies, ticks and mites, use mineral that is chelated, feed a high protein diet, etc.

There is truth in those tenets if you want maximum PERFORMANCE. A cow that breeds back in less than 90 days post partum, produces lots of milk, grows a calf that can put on a 100 pounds of growth per month, etc etc. The industry advocates PUSHING beef cattle to levels beyond what Red ever expected.

Are we talking profitability or growing the economy? The government wants us to spend and to create jobs and produce cheap food. To me it's very apperent that government doesn't care if farmers make money.

I could not agree with you more! There is a lot of lip service and rhetoric about how "great farmers are" and "how much they mean to this nation" - all rhetoric. It is just simply politics. As long as we spend money and vote the way they want us to - their aspirations are served.

Like so many industries in this nation - you cannot separate the wheat from the chaff. The bigger goal is cheap food for all those voters! The reality is that food costs more to produce at a profit than the politicans want us to get.

 

[hurleyjd]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... spartandhp
Bankruptcy rising among the farming industry. Only the beginning when we elect amateurs to run our country.

 

[Bright Raven]

If the government would just get out of the way, a man that has the facilities and knows how to cut meat can make a dang good living producing, processing and marketing their beef.

Why that will never happen! By: Itoldyouso.

There are too many small producers who don't have the knowledge, skill, or ethical standards to consistently market meat that is safe to eat.

Without government being involved, half of the nation would be spending 30 % of their day sitting on the throne because they ate unfit meat by True Grit's Georgia Meat Supply.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Most don’t have a clue what it cost to keep and maintain a bovine.

 

[True Grit Farms]

More fake news trying to ruin the country. Farming hasn't been profitable since the government started subsidizing the farmers. Or leaders sold US out through the years and now we're trying to get back what they gave away. Hopefully it'll work out and we'll be stronger as a country. Immigration and trade has needed to be fixed for a long time, and no one had the strength because of the votes.

 

[cbcr]

Many with beef cattle also have off farm jobs. The cattle they sometimes make enough money to pay all or at least most of the mortgage on the land.

It is different with beef cattle than it is with diary. Most dairy farmers are full time, but still one spouse may work off the farm for insurance and household expenses. With beef operations especially smaller ones, both spouses work off the farm.

If beef farmers just as dairy producers, had to really make a living with their beef herds, most would be out of business. But the majority of the smaller beef farmers are hobby farmers. They like the rural lifestyle, like the cattle, etc. A lot of these small producers have little concern or don't care about the type or quality of the cattle they are raising.

My ag teacher in high school put things in a different perspective. While it is true that the off farm job will pay considerably more money, many of these people have houses in town. Now the farmer may not have much money in his pocket, but he is building equity. When it comes time to retire, who will be better off? The person who lives in town or the farmer?

When the city person retires, he still has his house, and he might if he is lucky receive a pension from his job. On the other hand, the farmer has his land, equipment, livestock, etc that he can sell. His land should have appreciated and worth more that what it was originally purchased for.

Bottom line, at retirement a farmer should be in a better financial position.

 

[True Grit Farms]

If the government would just get out of the way, a man that has the facilities and knows how to cut meat can make a dang good living producing, processing and marketing their beef.

Why that will never happen! By: Itoldyouso.

There are too many small producers who don't have the knowledge, skill, or ethical standards to consistently market meat that is You to eat.

Without government being involved, half of the nation would be spending 30 % of their day sitting on the throne because they ate unfit meat by True Grit's Georgia Meat Supply.

Easy now, I'm no Jogeephus but we catch, cook and clean the majority of what we eat in our household. Furthermore my family of 5 has only spent one night in the hospital in the last 34 years. I'm sure our luck is going to run out but hopefully it will not be from something we ate.

 

[callmefence]

If the government would just get out of the way, a man that has the facilities and knows how to cut meat can make a dang good living producing, processing and marketing their beef.

Why that will never happen! By: Itoldyouso.

There are too many small producers who don't have the knowledge, skill, or ethical standards to consistently market meat that is safe to eat.

Without government being involved, half of the nation would be spending 30 % of their day sitting on the throne because they ate unfit meat by True Grit's Georgia Meat Supply.

Gives me the shyts and I never even meet him....

 

[Bright Raven]

If the government would just get out of the way, a man that has the facilities and knows how to cut meat can make a dang good living producing, processing and marketing their beef.

Why that will never happen! By: Itoldyouso.

There are too many small producers who don't have the knowledge, skill, or ethical standards to consistently market meat that is safe to eat.

Without government being involved, half of the nation would be spending 30 % of their day sitting on the throne because they ate unfit meat by True Grit's Georgia Meat Supply.

Gives me the shyts and I never even meet him....

That is funny.