Profitability 2.0

[Bovine breeder]

Finally a productive thread with good discussion and it disappears. Lol. I'd like to restart this conversation.

What practices have you implemented or quit doing that made you more profitable? Technical nuts and bolts type discussion is welcome too. I'd love to hear detail about stocking rates or profit per acre or whatever the case may be.

 

[Lucky]

1. Buying good quality weed free hay and unrolling it when feeding.
2. Investing in the equipment to buy and put feed out in bulk instead of using sacks.
3. Cross fencing
4. Weaning calves for 90 days minimum then watching the market.
5.Spraying pastures every year.
6.Going to a 90 day calving season, would like to get down to 75 days.
7. Studying up on what a cow needs nutrition wise to make it through the winter.

These are the things that made a very noticeable difference and allowed me to grow. This is going to be a good thread. Be interesting to have a thread on mistakes that have cost you time or money too.

 

[Stocker Steve]

+ HT cross fencing
+ grazing some yearlings
+ bale grazing
+ hard cull'in
- lime & clover
- F1 cows

 

[sstterry]

Ok, I will repost my question. Why is unrolling better than just moving a feeder every couple of days? It seems to me there would be a ridiculous amount of waste unrolling every feeding.

 

[Bright Raven]

Lance,

I started as a commercial operation with 4 cows purchased over in your county from my brother. I was lucky in the first couple years when there was a big boom in cattle prices. Weaned calves were selling for as much as $1400. When prices went down and continued to fall, revenue plummeted. With the encouragement of Fire Sweep Simmentals, I began a switch to a registered Simmental herd bred by Artificial Insemination to PB Simmental bulls. I have adopted the model Fire Sweep uses except I do not do intensive rotational grazing. I have a herd of 20 cows and heifers. With only 16 to 20 calves a year, the revenue from a seedstock operation is significantly higher than a feeder operation. The demand exceeds the supply. I have built a good relationship with producers who like my product. One producer who bought 2 bulls from me last year has staked a claim on one of my fall bull calves. I prefer not to take requests for bulls this early. They could die, get injured or fail the BSE. But the point is, there is good demand for AI sired heifers and bulls. Despite all the pros and cons discussed on this board, the fact is, buyers here want registered AI sired bulls and heifers to build on the genetics of their herds. The CAIP Program has something to do with that but most of my calves are being bought by Non CAIP buyers. The point is, switching to a Registered AI sired herd has greatly increased revenues in my small operation. Continuing as a commercial feeder producer with such a small herd, was not worthwhile.

 

[ddd75]

hay building

 

[Ebenezer]

Ok, I will repost my question. Why is unrolling better than just moving a feeder every couple of days? It seems to me there would be a ridiculous amount of waste unrolling every feeding.

A ring makes a depressed dead spot. On sorry hay or bad rings there is a mat of carbon left that is too thick. Only the boss cows eat. On unrolled hay all cows eat. You unroll it where you want to improve the soil in a strip of pasture rather than smoother a round spot. Feed enough for them to eat for several hours. Sorry hay will always have more waste than decent hay no matter how you feed it.

 

[Lucky]

Ok, I will repost my question. Why is unrolling better than just moving a feeder every couple of days? It seems to me there would be a ridiculous amount of waste unrolling every feeding.

I unroll 2 1200# rolls a day to 80 cows and If you raked the waste up it wouldn't fit in a 5 gallon bucket. I can also stop unrolling at anytime and carry the last of the roll to Another set of cattle if needed. It has cut my hay usage in half and the cattle look better because they all take their time to eat without fighting. Haven't had a baby calf get injured since I started unrolling and I can target bad spots in the pasture and build them up.

 

[Dave]

Weaned for 45 days and then shipped early to a better sale which fed good. Doing this significantly reduced shrink. Then figured out how to put together enough for a pot load. This cut shipping cost. Next started selling on the video. Less commission to sell, no shipping cost, and just 2% pencil shrink either weighed at home or on the truck. I quit making hay but that works for me because there are tens of thousands of acres of irrigated hay within trucking distance of me. Fed waste from a sweet corn processing plant. Always on the look out for cheap by product feed that cows will eat.

 

[Stocker Steve]

With the encouragement of Fire Sweep Simmentals, I began a switch to a registered Simmental herd bred by Artificial Insemination to PB Simmental bulls.

I appreciate that a small commerical operation is usually not profitable.
I see a number of folks building up registered herds. Some seem to always be buying "better" heifers and bulls. AI would address part of this.
How long did it take you to break even on the registered females?

 

[Caustic Burno]

With the encouragement of Fire Sweep Simmentals, I began a switch to a registered Simmental herd bred by Artificial Insemination to PB Simmental bulls.

I appreciate that a small commerical operation is usually not profitable.
I see a number of folks building up registered herds. Some seem to always be buying "better" heifers and bulls. AI would address part of this.
How long did it take you to break even on the registered females?

Commercial is much more profitable IMO unless you have a niche breed.
Hard to compete with the three (Angus,Brahman and Hereford) as small producers. Haven't seen but one niche survive long term in my area and they are British Whites.

Read in some beef magazine eons ago the average lifespan for small seedstock operations was seven to ten years.

 

[Bright Raven]

With the encouragement of Fire Sweep Simmentals, I began a switch to a registered Simmental herd bred by Artificial Insemination to PB Simmental bulls.

I appreciate that a small commerical operation is usually not profitable.
I see a number of folks building up registered herds. Some seem to always be buying "better" heifers and bulls. AI would address part of this.
How long did it take you to break even on the registered females?

The operation on an income tax basis is still writing off depreciation of infrastructure and initial capital costs. On an income tax basis, it is difficult to record a profit until depreciation is settled. I have started my tax preparation for 2018. My tractor has now been depreciated. Some of the original fencing projects which have a 7 year period of depreciation are falling out. I had a 50% increase in total revenue this year over any other year.

Some of those heifers paid back by their second calves. I bought 4 of the heifers from Fire Sweep and a couple delivered outstanding calves. In fact, a couple of those calves were retained and just had their first calves this fall. My herd reached 20 this fall. About 35 % of those are now my breeding and raising. I have 3 calves in this fall group that I will retain. As you mentioned, if you start with good females and you make good AI selections, there is no reason to go outside my herd to bring in genetics.

My cows fit my environment well. I have zero feet issues, I breed back 100 % in a 45 day AI breeding season. If you remember the "shyster" thread, I got jumped on by Super Dexter for using other breeder's genetics. Well, he is right and I guess that makes me a Shyster but I am not going to be a walking, talking, working heap of organic mass long enough to reach whatever goal he thinks I should achieve. So yes, I bought other breeder's genetics.

The operation has better profitability prospects as a seedstock operation.

 

[Bigfoot]

1. Never do anything for "looks". That might be hard to explain, but as a young man I was guilty of that. Certainly not big trucks and big trailers. I'm talking about spending a large sum of your time primping and tweaking. If your going to put effort in, see a cash return.
2. Went years without spraying for weeds. Finally started, and I never clip pastures now. Have more grass than I ever have.
3. More pasture rotations.
4. Stockpile grass.
5. Hold your weaned calves longer. Growing frame is cheap.

 

[Bright Raven]

2. Went years without spraying for weeds. Finally started, and I never clip pastures now. Have more grass than I ever have.

How do you spray? Particularly, to avoid killing clover.

I remember you saying it is good to have weeds because they bring up the deep nutrients and those are recycled when you mow. I thought that was a good practice.

 

[Caustic Burno]

2. Went years without spraying for weeds. Finally started, and I never clip pastures now. Have more grass than I ever have.

How do you spray? Particularly, to avoid killing clover.

2-4-D won't wipe out your clover seed bank as Grazon. The Picloram is the enemy.
I spray only as well.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The operation on an income tax basis is still writing off depreciation of infrastructure and initial capital costs. On an income tax basis, it is difficult to record a profit until depreciation is settled.

That income tax thing is way complicated, and my banker does not care much about it.

He worries a lot about cash flow because of all the dairy and crop guys who are not able to pay off their notes. Some fancy fast figur'in fellows call this "cash profit."

How long did it take for your seedstock operation to cash flow ?

 

[Bright Raven]

The operation on an income tax basis is still writing off depreciation of infrastructure and initial capital costs. On an income tax basis, it is difficult to record a profit until depreciation is settled.

That income tax thing is way complicated, and my banker does not care much about it.

He worries a lot about cash flow because of all the dairy and crop guys who are not able to pay off their notes. Some fancy fast figur'in fellows call this "cash profit."
How long did it take for your seedstock operation to cash flow ?

Schedule F is the farm tax portion of the 1040 tax return. I do my own taxes. I have made a couple mistakes over the last few years but all the IRS has done is require me to correct it. If you get through it once, it becomes easier each time.

There are many ways to measure profit. On a cash flow basis, I generate enough cash to cover expenses without borrowing. I have zero debt. I purchased my farm on a cash basis and I operate on a cash flow basis. That does not mean I have made a profit because I have not generated all my cash flow with revenue produced from farm sales.

In answer to your question, cash flow began with the first calves I sold as feeders. I actually did pretty well in the beginning because I started during the "cattle boom".

The real gains will be captured when I sell the estate. The improvements that I have written off through depreciation will be unencumbered. So there should be a nice capital gain in the end. I expect the IRS is going to help me share in that gain.

 

[Bigfoot]

2. Went years without spraying for weeds. Finally started, and I never clip pastures now. Have more grass than I ever have.

How do you spray? Particularly, to avoid killing clover.

I remember you saying it is good to have weeds because they bring up the deep nutrients and those are recycled when you mow. I thought that was a good practice.

As long as I'm just spraying 2 four D, I don't necessarily wipe it out. It'll crisp it up a little. I went overboard, and sprayed the whole place with Grazon next one time. It's an awesome product, that has its place, but it got the clover that year. I now only spray the occasional area that has horse nettle with it.

I'm also of the opinion, that our volunteer white clover isn't doing a whole from a protein stand point, or a nitrogen fixation stand point. Red and crimson, they are probably putting down nitrogen, and adding protein. I have plethora of white. I just question what it's actually doing?

Yes, weeds do bring micronutrients to the top. I've had so much crabgrass come in, since I've been spraying, that I'm just tickled to the point, that I'm not sweating the micro (might have to someday).

 

[skyhightree1]

Finally a productive thread with good discussion and it disappears. Lol. I'd like to restart this conversation.

What practices have you implemented or quit doing that made you more profitable? Technical nuts and bolts type discussion is welcome too. I'd love to hear detail about stocking rates or profit per acre or whatever the case may be.

sell most of the cattle and get more profitable animals...

 

[bball]

+ HT cross fencing
+ grazing some yearlings
+ bale grazing
+ hard cull'in
- lime & clover
- F1 cows

Steve are you listing these as negatives? If so, care to explain further please?