Problems with recycling

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hurleyjd

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Paper and cardboard and plastic at one time had a market in China. Now no market and the material is stacking up fast. Some cities are sending it to the land fill. Will this be problem that only gets worse or will there be a resurgence in the recycling of these products. Some plastic in the USA as been turned into fence post is one thing I can think of.
 
There is no paper problem. I know this because I read from multiple sources in the late 70s, the 80s and 90s that we were going to be a totally paperless society by the time the new millennium arrived.

Plastic recycling will not re-appear until/unless the price of crude oil increases. It's less expensive when oil is cheap, to make new plastic than it is to recycle old plastic.
 
We are a throw away society. It is cheaper to throw away than to reuse/recycle. Just need to have bigger/deeper landfields or what is probably happening with some just take it a little further out to sea.
 
All recycling issues can be solved with deposit levies of some value. Pop cans aren't even worth a penny a can, so no one bothers collecting them here. Automotive batteries are worth $15-20 a core and you see pretty good rates of recycling on them. I know anytime I see a dead battery sitting at the dump I pick it up. Make a recycled pop can worth 25 cents a can and paper/plastic $5 a pound and you will see things clean up pretty fast.
 
A lot of the plastic problem is that there is a limited demand for dirty plastic. To much of what we put in the recycle tubs has not been cleaned and China has started rejecting it. No simple answer here.
People are uniformed and think everything is recyclable. Most food containers are not unless they are rinsed and that is just to much trouble. Paper is just an oversupply problem.
Cans are easy and carry the weight of the other products. Lots of cities are starting to charge a fee to recycle.

The public needs to be educated on what is valuable enough to recycle and what is not. Its a moving target.
 
Aaron said:
All recycling issues can be solved with deposit levies of some value. Pop cans aren't even worth a penny a can, so no one bothers collecting them here. Automotive batteries are worth $15-20 a core and you see pretty good rates of recycling on them. I know anytime I see a dead battery sitting at the dump I pick it up. Make a recycled pop can worth 25 cents a can and paper/plastic $5 a pound and you will see things clean up pretty fast.
You can't just "make it" worth something. It has to have value to someone.
 
M.Magis said:
Aaron said:
All recycling issues can be solved with deposit levies of some value. Pop cans aren't even worth a penny a can, so no one bothers collecting them here. Automotive batteries are worth $15-20 a core and you see pretty good rates of recycling on them. I know anytime I see a dead battery sitting at the dump I pick it up. Make a recycled pop can worth 25 cents a can and paper/plastic $5 a pound and you will see things clean up pretty fast.
You can't just "make it" worth something. It has to have value to someone.
Yep. Any city or state can legislate deposits, but there still has to be 'somewhere usefull' for it all to go, otherwise, instead of ending up in a regular landfill, it just piles up in an official 'plastic somewhere' pile to dealt with at a later date by a later demographic for a yet-to-be decided purpose.
Kinda like old tires..


The recycling centers can't begin to keep up with the supply of old tires that come in each week so the piles get bigger and bigger and bigger...



We have to pay a recycle fee every time we buy a new tire, but any old tire we have on our property here, we have to pay someone to accept. Depending on the tire and it's size, it's anywhere from $3-$16 each and I have to haul them. (I think I have about 90 altogether that I 'inherited'.)
 
M.Magis said:
Aaron said:
All recycling issues can be solved with deposit levies of some value. Pop cans aren't even worth a penny a can, so no one bothers collecting them here. Automotive batteries are worth $15-20 a core and you see pretty good rates of recycling on them. I know anytime I see a dead battery sitting at the dump I pick it up. Make a recycled pop can worth 25 cents a can and paper/plastic $5 a pound and you will see things clean up pretty fast.
You can't just "make it" worth something. It has to have value to someone.

You have to add a deposit to it to make collection worthwhile and then create a business to process it into a new product of value. They do it here with tires and new rubber products such as stall mats. All requires government involvement and bureaucracy unfortunately. People who think recycling is going to take off without substantial government investment is fooling themselves. Governments have been paying China for years to take their crap and the mountains of unrecyclables and pollution have exceeded the benefit of acceptance.

Used to have plastic/glass/paper recycling locally here when I was a kid. But distance is too much and small municipalities were not going to massively increase property taxes to pay for the environment. So it all goes in the dump. Bigger towns still do it, at an annual loss in the budget, which has made them start seriously reconsidering it in recent years.
 
Aaron said:
M.Magis said:
Aaron said:
All recycling issues can be solved with deposit levies of some value. Pop cans aren't even worth a penny a can, so no one bothers collecting them here. Automotive batteries are worth $15-20 a core and you see pretty good rates of recycling on them. I know anytime I see a dead battery sitting at the dump I pick it up. Make a recycled pop can worth 25 cents a can and paper/plastic $5 a pound and you will see things clean up pretty fast.
You can't just "make it" worth something. It has to have value to someone.

You have to add a deposit to it to make collection worthwhile and then create a business to process it into a new product of value. They do it here with tires and new rubber products such as stall mats. All requires government involvement and bureaucracy unfortunately. People who think recycling is going to take off without substantial government investment is fooling themselves. Governments have been paying China for years to take their crap and the mountains of unrecyclables and pollution have exceeded the benefit of acceptance.

Used to have plastic/glass/paper recycling locally here when I was a kid. But distance is too much and small municipalities were not going to massively increase property taxes to pay for the environment. So it all goes in the dump. Bigger towns still do it, at an annual loss in the budget, which has made them start seriously reconsidering it in recent years.

That's a tax Aaron, something we've got enough of down here.
 
TennesseeTuxedo said:
Aaron said:
M.Magis said:
You can't just "make it" worth something. It has to have value to someone.

You have to add a deposit to it to make collection worthwhile and then create a business to process it into a new product of value. They do it here with tires and new rubber products such as stall mats. All requires government involvement and bureaucracy unfortunately. People who think recycling is going to take off without substantial government investment is fooling themselves. Governments have been paying China for years to take their crap and the mountains of unrecyclables and pollution have exceeded the benefit of acceptance.

Used to have plastic/glass/paper recycling locally here when I was a kid. But distance is too much and small municipalities were not going to massively increase property taxes to pay for the environment. So it all goes in the dump. Bigger towns still do it, at an annual loss in the budget, which has made them start seriously reconsidering it in recent years.

That's a tax Aaron, something we've got enough of down here.

Well yes and no. It is a deposit given back to those interested in participating in recycling. Any individual person could get every penny back that they initially paid in deposit. No matter how nicely I ask, I can never seem to get my property taxes back.

But don't torch the messenger, I am just pointing out what needs to be done to get recycling rates into the high percentiles that people dream about. I personally could care less one way or another. I personally vote we build huge incinerator boiler generators across the world and burn it all to produce electricity, everything from your old shoes to plastic water bottles.
 
Aaron said:
Well yes and no. It is a deposit given back to those interested in participating in recycling. Any individual person could get every penny back that they initially paid in deposit. No matter how nicely I ask, I can never seem to get my property taxes back.

But don't torch the messenger, I am just pointing out what needs to be done to get recycling rates into the high percentiles that people dream about. I personally could care less one way or another. I personally vote we build huge incinerator boiler generators across the world and burn it all to produce electricity, everything from your old shoes to plastic water bottles.

Scroll back up this page and look at the pile of tires.

If you charge me a $1 deposit on a plastic coke bottle, I'll save them and return them. But then what are businesses going to do with them ? They are not actually being recycled. You add the burden and expense of personnel, transport, storage, and the consumers wind up having to pay extra to cover it.

When I was a kid cokes came in glass bottles and they reused them. Huge difference. Now everyone buys thru Amazon and there is tons of packaging materials. Groceries come in safety sealed packaging. Packaging, packaging. My trash cans fill up constantly.

Aaron I don't have a solution to the problem. But deposits are just going to cost us all more unless we go back to the old ways.

I do indeed dumpster dive at TSC. I get all their discarded tube steel from China lawnmower packaging, those green frames that dog kennels come in etc. I have built 11 chicken houses that are framed out of green tube steel crates for dog kennels. I have built truck bed crates to hall show lambs. I have sold a lot of items built out of junk. Trampoline frames make great hay cradles. I build my own chicken feeders out of flat bar and 5 gallon buckets with Gammo screw on lids. I built a stained glass storage bin on wheels out of junk frame covers that is huge. My wife has all her stained glass supplies in it. Thousands of pieces of glass in her studio. All built from junk iron thrown out. There's more I've built but you get the picture. I think we could be more innovative with discarded items.
 
I have rebuilt several grandfather clocks that were "beyond repair". One took me four solid days to rebuild. Scratching my head over and over. I actually had to buy one part. I machined most parts that were needed. Sometimes they did not work and I had to remake the parts. It is a hell of a nice feeling when you put a 100 year old clock back in service.
 
Oregon has a 10 cent deposit on bottles and cans. The government loves it because they make millions on all the ones never returned for the deposit. I like it because people give me their bottle and cans which I return. I also have people who live in Washington who save their bottles for me. Oregon gives me 10 cents each when I feed those bottles into the machine. People don't like to stand there and feed the machine but I make as much as $85 an hour doing it. Trouble is I only get in about one hour every other month. If I could only get in a 40 hour week at that rate......
 
Much of the recent reluctance of China to take our crap is due to the trade war. Not sure if this is on the list of US demands.

Incinerators burn a lot in my area.
 
Stocker Steve said:
Incinerators burn a lot in my area.

Friend owns a company and he burns stuff like this to generate his own electricity to cut his electricity bill. When Obama was in office the government paid him $5 million because he did this. He was doing it anyway so I don't know why but they paid him and several others for doing this. Something about going green, or maybe had something to do with polar bears or maybe they just had extra tax money they needed to spend. Don't understand it but he was pretty happy so I guess that's all that matters.
 
Hook2.0 said:
"Fix it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without"

Nowadays, with all the plastic surgeons and other 'reconstructive' type doctors, I believe a lot of women in media (and otherwise) follow that adage as well........
 
I have about a half mile of country road. To go to the golf course you have to go by my place. There is always trash thrown out. Whiskey bottles, beer cans, fast food containers. You name it and it has been thrown out. I do not clean the road ditches but each year Before cutting for hay I go around the inside and pick up the cans bottles and any junk that has been thrown out. Now here is a thought put a tax on anything that might be thrown out. Let the road commissioners hire a trash crew to clean up with this money. I know that I will have to pay a tax but I can do it if it means the area can be cleaned up.
 

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