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<blockquote data-quote="elkwc" data-source="post: 1482189" data-attributes="member: 22295"><p>IMO Kit had cattle that was useful to commercial breeders when he was breeding the type that Ohlde, Beckton and others raise. He has took the frame size on down from what those breeders raise and has lost performance while doing it. He has went extreme. IMO extremes are never productive or the wise choice. If a person wants to feed his own and market them then the extremely small cattle might work. I've seen minis not much smaller than some of the Pharo cattle I've seen. With that being said I know every area is different but we don't see many if any cows in the 1,800# plus range here. We had one in the herd I help with when I started helping and she was sold over 2 years ago. Have seen 1-2 more in the range or close to it in 4 years. She had 100 older cows when I started helping. Most were in the 1,550-1600# range. He cow size has moderated some since. Today I would say most are in the 1,350-1,450 range. This size of cow will produce a calf that will make money for everyone when mated to a bull that will weigh a ton and a frame 5.5-6.0. Here we have to have a bull that is maternal and also will produce a productive calf as a feeder and on the rail. Most breeders here retain heifers. If you went to a terminal type management system like you suggest and not retain heifers then finding suitable replacements is vey hard and expensive. Again these costs would need to be figured in when deciding the cost of using a Pharo bull. In summary I respectfully disagree that the Pharo cattle are a move in the right direction. At least not for me and all I talk too. And that includes those who have tried them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="elkwc, post: 1482189, member: 22295"] IMO Kit had cattle that was useful to commercial breeders when he was breeding the type that Ohlde, Beckton and others raise. He has took the frame size on down from what those breeders raise and has lost performance while doing it. He has went extreme. IMO extremes are never productive or the wise choice. If a person wants to feed his own and market them then the extremely small cattle might work. I've seen minis not much smaller than some of the Pharo cattle I've seen. With that being said I know every area is different but we don't see many if any cows in the 1,800# plus range here. We had one in the herd I help with when I started helping and she was sold over 2 years ago. Have seen 1-2 more in the range or close to it in 4 years. She had 100 older cows when I started helping. Most were in the 1,550-1600# range. He cow size has moderated some since. Today I would say most are in the 1,350-1,450 range. This size of cow will produce a calf that will make money for everyone when mated to a bull that will weigh a ton and a frame 5.5-6.0. Here we have to have a bull that is maternal and also will produce a productive calf as a feeder and on the rail. Most breeders here retain heifers. If you went to a terminal type management system like you suggest and not retain heifers then finding suitable replacements is vey hard and expensive. Again these costs would need to be figured in when deciding the cost of using a Pharo bull. In summary I respectfully disagree that the Pharo cattle are a move in the right direction. At least not for me and all I talk too. And that includes those who have tried them. [/QUOTE]
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