Pasture renovation

[MoDave]

Well after the very dry summer I think most of the orchard grass in my pasture has died out. It only has a few spots where it has greened up. So need to do something...... I have a book from MFA and it has some different seed mixtures
Beef Bank High Sugar Grass Pasture Mix. A mixture of Two Perenial Ryegrasses (50%), Two intermediate Ryegrass (20%), Quickdraw Orchardgrass (20%), Ladino Clover (5%), medium red Clover (5%).
Or it list a pasture sweetner high sugar grass for overseeding. Which is a mixture of different types of Ryegrasses. Would this be a viable option and would it need to be no-tilled into the existing pasture, or would broadcasting be good?
Is it feasable to add a warm season grass to a mixed pasture?

 

[dun]

WSG and CSG don;t do well in a mix. Needs to pretty much be one or the other. You won;t like this, but your best bet would be to plant fescue. You can trhough in the rye grass for the slump times but with decent managment the fescue will carry you through the summer. Add clover (I prefer red others refer white) to the mix and you'll have a pasture that will last for generations.

 

[MoDave]

I don't mind that about the Fescue at all. What about the non toxic MaxQ Jesup tall fescue? Will be persistant?

 

[dun]

I don't mind that about the Fescue at all. What about the non toxic MaxQ Jesup tall fescue? Will be persistant?

I don;t know anything about the newer cultivars. They claim they're persistant but they haven;t been around through multiple droughts and abuse like the old KY31 has. We didn;t get a drop of rain from the beinning of june until the 1st of september. All the grass burned off. Had to start feeding hay during august. With the rain we've had this month the cows are belly deep in fescue again.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Dave I agree with Dun it is hard to beat k31 and then about february throw out some red clover seed
for drought and longevity it can't be beat

 

[MoDave]

Ok I have decided KY31 it is......... I am planning on spreading half of it now, and the other half in early spring. My plan is take my disc set it as straight as I can and run it lightly over my pasture, seed it (35 lbs to the acre), and roll it. I will fertilize in the early spring. Does this sound right? I wish I had enough pasture to take everything off of it, work it up right and let it grow a while. But I don't. And I don't want to sell my cows and start over. And right now crabgrass and a little orchard grass is about all I have.
I will add some red clover seed this winter.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Ok I have decided KY31 it is......... I am planning on spreading half of it now, and the other half in early spring. My plan is take my disc set it as straight as I can and run it lightly over my pasture, seed it (35 lbs to the acre), and roll it. I will fertilize in the early spring. Does this sound right? I wish I had enough pasture to take everything off of it, work it up right and let it grow a while. But I don't. And I don't want to sell my cows and start over. And right now crabgrass and a little orchard grass is about all I have.
I will add some red clover seed this winter.

Dave
I would hit it with a little nitrogen when you seed it so it boosts the growth a little before freezing
I also would seed all of it now and wouldn't seed any in the spring 35lbs per acre you should get a heck of a stand
I would probably back down to 20

 

[hillbillycwo]

Our agent in Hart County KY recommends 12 pounds per acre for over seeding of KY31 and 20 pounds per acre on prepared seed beds. Then come back in the early spring (end of Jan-Mid April) with 6-8 pounds of your choice of clover red or white. White does a little better on Rolling hills than red according to the agent...we have noticed little difference on our rolling hills.

 

[jlhall]

The question that you should ask yourself before deciding on a pasture grass or mix is "What do you want out of your pasture?"

Are you looking for persistence or are you looking for performance? From a persistence standpoint KY31 is tough to beat.... however, very little of the seed sold today as KY31 is in fact KY31. There is no system in place to maintain genetic integrity of KY31. The only thing you can be sure of when buying KY31 is that you are getting a tall fescue. If you are looking for persistence, make sure that you pay close attention to the analysis label. Look for something that is very low in weed seed (less than .10%) Many lots of KY31 are harvested off old pastures in Missouri. The last thing you want is to be stuck with a weed that the other guy couldn't eliminate.

The highest performing grasses tend to be shorter lived and usually require better farming management. An old KY31 field may be green but it doesn't mean that it is productive. Not all grasses are created equal from a performance standpoint. You have to look at forage yield AND the ability of the animal to convert the plant material into usable nutrients. Endophyte infected tall fescues will persist longer than the endophyte free versions of tall fescue, however animal weight gains are better on fescues without harmful endophytes.

From a digestibility and weight gain standpoint it would be perennial ryegrass, orchardgrass, tall fescue, and smooth bromegrass in that order. The dairy farmers in SW MO have switched over the last five years to perennial ryegrass rotational grazing. That is because ryegrass has the highest energy levels. The downside is that ryegrass is not a turn the cattle out and forget about it type of grass. It can and will be over-grazed by cattle because it has a soft crown unlike that of tall fescue.

So ask yourself are you wanting minimal work (Tall Fescue) or maximum gains (ryegrass) :tiphat:

 

[hillbillycwo]

Endofyte infection in KY31 is an issue. It can be managed cheaply with free choice mineral and a good mix in the pasture of clover. We also over seed every few years with 6 lbs to the acre of orchard grass. Our cattle actually eat that last in a field . Clover, fescue and then the orchard grass i nthat order. We seed our pastures and hay fields the same. Funny thing is to me anyway the cows will pick the clover, fescue and orchard grass out of the hay rings in that same order. They bawl like crazy for fresh hay when the last foot or so of the ring has nothing but orchard grass in it.

 

[smuff76]

I too would go with KY31 or an endophyte free. From what I have seen the MaxQ is too high priced to be all that relevant. Last time I saw the price it was up in the Alfalfa price range........... Another thing in your favor is that seed is cheap at the moment. KY31 is like $30 per bag and most of the endophyte free's are probably $55-60 per bag.

You don't need to go with 35 lb. per acre. 20 is probably close and if there are places that aren't that thin even that might be a bit high.

 

[MoDave]

Well I priced a Friendly fungus variety and almost fainted..... $3.50 a pound. Needles to say that made my mind up for me. KY31 was $.58 a pound. Then I found a man that had about two ton of clean fescue seed that he had stored for 2 years and he sold it to me for $.30 a pound. So I will spread this as soon as we get a rain forecast. But at the rate we are going that may be some time.
I know that this is not tested seed, but he is a trustworthy man. He told me that he had saved it for himself and it was out of the best fescue that he had.
My question is this...... After fescue seed is stored 2 years it is supposed to be fungus free. Since the fungus is what makes it so hardy will that effect the hardiness of the grass, will it really be fungus free?
I will be bring a little bit of Douglas County seed to Shannon County. Hmmm.... Booger County to Booger County!!!

 

[Angus Cowman]

Now Dave that booger county seed might take over your pasture and whip all that shannon county grass out :lol:
it has to be hardy coming from my county it has had to fight for survival all of its life not to roll down the hill and to grab a foot hold between the rocks

 

[dun]

I've heard the same thing but don;t know for sure. But I would increase the seeding rate about 10-20% for the poorer germination

 

[smuff76]

Well I priced a Friendly fungus variety and almost fainted..... $3.50 a pound. Needles to say that made my mind up for me. KY31 was $.58 a pound. I know that this is not tested seed, but he is a trustworthy man. He told me that he had saved it for himself and it was out of the best fescue that he had.
My question is this...... After fescue seed is stored 2 years it is supposed to be fungus free. Since the fungus is what makes it so hardy will that effect the hardiness of the grass, will it really be fungus free?

That's what I was talking about when I mentioned MaxQ was high priced. You can find endophyte free fescue for a little over $1 per lb. Here's some fescue info:

http://www.caf.wvu.edu/~forage/fescue_e ... /story.htm

Also, after 2 years the endophyte will not be as prevalent in the seed. It can take a year or two for the fungus to die out. It's debatable whether or not it will be as hardy, but if it lives it will be better for cattle. The early releases of Mozark, Jessup and some of the other early endophyte free varieties struggled with early seedling vigour, which has been attributed to the lack of endophyte, but most of the newer varieties of endophyte free fescue don't have that problem.

 

[Douglas]

I was thinking the K31 fungus died over time in stored seed. would you not be getting less persistance as well with old seed since the fungus is less? Maybe 2 years is not that old.

 

[Douglas]

From Ohio State:

It is interesting to note the endophyte declines with time in stored seed at a rate faster than normal decrease in tall fescue seed germination. Research indicates seed storage for 18 to 24 months will almost eliminate viable endophyte in the seed.