Parenting . . . Does it enable kids to kill people?

[Kathie in Thorp]

LZ Granderson did a bang-up job for CNN, talking about why these bad things happen that kids do. It's largely about parenting. Please read. It's worth your time.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/22/opinion/granderson-criminal-kids-responsibility/index.html

 

[Jogeephus]

Those are my sentiments exactly. Where are the parents? We have created a welfare system that rewards single mothers and penalizes the poor families who are trying to make a go of it.

A few years ago I took a young black boy under my wing and mentored him. I thought the world of him. He had so much potential. He was from a typical black family here - if you can call it a family. Mother gone. Father only God knows where. Raised primarily by his grandmother but she instructed him well and he was bright, honest and a hard worker. He ended up getting a full ride to college and I started helping him because I knew he needed money. What I gave him wasn't charity but his return for his efforts far outweighed what he put in to it I assure you.

After his freshman year I noticed his girlfriend at home began being a lot more clingy towards him. His own mother would snap at him for nothing. I told him as I would my own son that he should be careful and that some people would not like to see him grow. He just chuckled and said there wasn't anything to worry about.

A month after he entered his junior year in college his girlfriend turned up pregnant. Next thing he does is quits college and takes a job as a laborer. He moves back in with his mother and his girlfriend and their baby is staying at her mother's house - gov't sponsored. When asked how things are going he said that things are not nearly as tough as people made it out to be.

Now he has found another girlfriend at his job and she is expecting anytime but they will not marry because this will mess up the bennies. I guess in a way, it couldn't be that hard when the government and the grandparents are taking care of the children and you don't have rent, utilities or food to buy. Your lifestyle is subsidized by the taxpayer and the family - if you have one that cares enough to do it.

Though I still love this young man as my own I am totally disappointed in him but I can sortof see where he is coming from. He and his family are in the welfare trap. He came so close to breaking free of it but I don't think he realized what freedom he gave up by not sticking to his goals. But this is all he knows. This is normal. And his mother is so happy now that she is a grandparent.

We can construct all the bridges in the world to see people get out of this mindset but at the end of the day it is their choice. Unfortunately, many of these people look at me with resentment because they think I am somehow responsible for their dilemma. I see this happening every day. I am immersed in this culture and its really sad. It will make you angry especially when you see the look of contempt in their eyes and shear hatred.

Many will think I am wrong but I truly believe the only way we are going to stop this culture from sapping the life blood out of this country is by making it so painful and so hard that only a fool would choose not to use the bridge to get out the trap. But those same people who would think I am wrong I suspect would get all over me if I put six cows on an acre of land without the means to feed them. I have always felt, if you can't feed them then you have no business breeding them. But I know this isn't PC and all.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I'm not saying this is a black vs. white issue -- it's BAD PARENTING!! It is rampant. In my job, I'm now doing something I totally hate -- child support enforcement and determining parentage. It is across the board as to race -- not one more than another here. But there is a high percentage of mamas with more than one daddy's baby, and some submit info on 2-3 possible dads. The most depressing work I've ever done. And that was a "promotion."

 

[Jogeephus]

Kathy, I understand and acknowledge that, but where I live most white couples are married and show a sense of responsibility to their children. It is the rare exception to see a black couple do the same but I will say the children of these traditional families are exceptional and many have come to the house and spent the night with my kids. But not the parentless kids. This is where there is a lot of confusion on the part of people who do not live in areas like this. It can easily come across as racism if you don't choose your words very carefully and I'm not trying to come across as racist I'm just pointing out a real and serious problem we have. Here its not a matter of bad parenting its a matter of bad grand parenting. Raising children and I think you'll agree is a lot to ask of a grand parent or even a single parent. Its a lot of work and a lot of responsibility.

To add a little sorry white trash to this, if you recall a guy here in town adopted a little baby because the momma only had it to get a check and almost starved it to death. I helped a little with this child as well but when the mother learned she was not going to get a check for the baby after she gave it up for adoption she got pregnant again to get the checks coming in again. I pity the thought of what this child's life is going to be like and thankfully she is the minority in the white community and I can assure you this child doesn't stand a chance in life.

 

[3waycross]

Kathy, I understand and acknowledge that, but where I live most white couples are married and show a sense of responsibility to their children. It is the rare exception to see a black couple do the same but I will say the children of these traditional families are exceptional and many have come to the house and spent the night with my kids. But not the parentless kids. This is where there is a lot of confusion on the part of people who do not live in areas like this. It can easily come across as racism if you don't choose your words very carefully and I'm not trying to come across as racist I'm just pointing out a real and serious problem we have. Here its not a matter of bad parenting its a matter of bad grand parenting. Raising children and I think you'll agree is a lot to ask of a grand parent or even a single parent. Its a lot of work and a lot of responsibility.

To add a little sorry white trash to this, if you recall a guy here in town adopted a little baby because the momma only had it to get a check and almost starved it to death. I helped a little with this child as well but when the mother learned she was not going to get a check for the baby after she gave it up for adoption she got pregnant again to get the checks coming in again. I pity the thought of what this child's life is going to be like and thankfully she is the minority in the white community and I can assure you this child doesn't stand a chance in life.

Funny you should say that because in a roundabout way bad grandparenting in is many ways responsible for the violence in our culture. Having said that i will explain.

In High School Spanish class our teacher taught us a lot of "Idiomas", in English we call them sayings, some of which do not translate well but this one does.

"El esta malo, porque no tiene abuelos"......he is bad because he had no grandparents. What it really means is he had no grandparents in the home or close enough to teach him manners, morals, and values while his parents slaved to put food on the table.

It did and still does come down to the destruction of the nuclear family, and the Great Society did that extremely well. Once again thank you LBJ.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Dammmm, I so hate it when I think that if I hit "enter", the post will appear. Then I have to start my deep-thinking all over again.

I grew up pretty sheltered in the Dakotas. I was probably about 10 when I realized that Native kids and Hispanic kids weren't just the same as me -- my parents pointed that out. I was a freshman in HS before I met a black kid, courtesy of Sky Ranch, who had a house in Belle Fourche, SD. When my (now 42 yr. old) daughter was a toddler, she ran into a black couple in the laundromat in Wenatchee, WA, and came screaming to me. They had done nothing to scare her; she'd just never seen a black person before. I was embarassed and apologized to them, and those folks were not at all upset. Here, I don't "expect" black kids to be a problem. Any kid that's a problem bothers me. Before I did the support enforcement stuff, I did the Juvenile Criminal cases work. All of it, or much of it, seems to boil down to nobody that worries about being responsible and not teaching respect.

 

[Jogeephus]

All of it, or much of it, seems to boil down to nobody that worries about being responsible and not teaching respect.

I agree completely and as 3-Way pointed out it seems this mindset and destruction of the nuclear family began with Johnson's great society idea. These policies have set the framework of generation after generation of people who are paid not to be responsible for their actions or their children and when these sorry people outbreed the working class tax payer 3 to 1 there is no way this is sustainable.

Here, all you need do is come to the school and watch what happens on the first day with the kindergarten. Most parents bring their children into the class to meet their teacher and give reassurance to the scared child but the brood mares simply drop the scared child on the curb. This is such a bad problem the school has enlisted volunteers to give these kids assurance and walk them in the school and act as surrogate parents. Its aweful. Its sad but this is the way it is. But I guarantee you when the child is shot by an officer while robbing a store the mother will be so upset and will need a check because she loved her little baby so much. Its sickening.

You can talk to any teacher and they can pretty well tell you which children have parents and which ones belong to brood mares. They can also tell you which ones will end up in prison. Of course, we know who they are because since the school doesn't feed them on the weekends our church delivers food to them because without this food they do not eat and the numbers fed has tripled since this has started even though our population is decreasing. But you have to wonder, are we actually helping or are we enabling. But its not right for the child to suffer is it?

Ironically, in a few short years these same kids will look at us with the same contempt and hatred as their parents do because we owe them because we did this to them. :roll:

 

[I luv herfrds]

Kathie I must admit I was pretty sheltered too until I got the town job and some of the garbage I see in this county of 3500 is enough to make a person sick.
Parents teaching their children to shop lift even though they are on food stamps.
I have seen kids come in and buy a ton of junk food and since they are with a certain friend and this friends parents/grandparents have a charge account they charge it all to the account. No parents monitoring these kids at all. Most parents are in the bar drunk most of the time.
I get sick of hearing that saying that it takes a village to raise to raise a child,BS!, it takes PARENTS to raise a child.

My 16 YO son went out and got himself a job with no nagging from us. Guess we must have done something right!

 

[Brute 23]

This is not a white vs back, good parent vs bad parent, broken home vs what people perceive to be a family debate.... This has to do with poverty... people of the same Socio-econimic class. The poor, uneducated classes are out breeding the rest of us. My mom and dad have 4 siblings each. None of the siblings have more than 2 kids, several have 1, and one has none. The young man in Jogees is talking about has 2 by 20 and most likely more in his life. The others in is s-e class sucked him back in despite Jogees hard work to elevate him.

Which is why our govt's plan will backfire because it encourages growth (numbers) of the lower class and discourages numbers in the upper classes. More people taking out of the system than putting back in.

Which leads to why there use to be laws where you had to own land, ect, to vote. They wanted people who had skin in the game... the contributors... making the decisions. ;-)

 

[Jogeephus]

Goes back to if you can't feed them you should not breed them. Granted stuff happens. My first born was a glorious accident but I was in no way prepared for it financially. I was scared to death wondering how I was going to pull it off and give him what I thought he needed so I ended up working three jobs and I never took a dime from anyone. These jobs taught me a lot and I met a lot of people and it was through these connections I moved out of living from paycheck to paycheck.

I recently read an obituary of a 40 year old woman who had died. She left behind twelve children and four grandchildren and its safe to say they are all on the doles. How can someone be so irresponsible to do this? He77, I'm way older than that and I've yet to be privileged enough to have a grandchild. And on top of this, when I die, and if my children have reached the age of 40, I will leave them something substantial but hopefully they will not need it and they can pass it to the grandchildren. Like my father and his father, I believe in weaning and I'm not talking fence line weaning. Fear and hunger are the best motivators I know of. And being cold. Of course you don't get too cold cutting firewood up with an axe. And I'll admit it, if I had the opportunity to sit on my butt and have a free cell phone given to me I'd probably be one sorry white boy.

 

[suzorse]

I have been a single parent since 97 ( widowed) and have raised 2 kids on my own , 1 is handicapped and will probably live with me till I die
then she will be taken care of by her brother , and yes I get social security survivors benefits, I also work, and I have worked 2 jobs
to help pay for care for my daughter, I do not get food stamps or have any healthcare , My daughter gets Medicaid , I also do not get free lunches for my daughter I pay full price , My son has worked hard for what he has as he was tought (sp?) that nothing in life is free you have to work hard for what you have , and he is a son that any parent would be proud of ,
a lot of what we see with kids is they are not tought that there are consiquences to their actions , as if I punish my child in public
for what they do ,I can go to jail, or get it for child abuse, I have had child services called on me twice because my daughter has self inflicted bruises , this was both times by medical staff, they talk to her school and her other service providers and I am cleared, I had a sister ( she has since passed leaving 4 children and 1 was 14 at the time ) , she had been on welfare and lived in low cost housing all her life, never worked ,
I work hard for the things I have, and will do any kind of work , (scrubbing toilets ect ) to pay my bills and put food on the table, for minimum wage if I have to , which included irrigating for (GASP)' Idaho Watersheds' ( problem for ranchers, loggers , miners in Idaho )
me and the bank own my home
Suzanne

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I have been a single parent since 97 ( widowed) and have raised 2 kids on my own , 1 is handicapped and will probably live with me till I die
then she will be taken care of by her brother , and yes I get social security survivors benefits, I also work, and I have worked 2 jobs
to help pay for care for my daughter, I do not get food stamps or have any healthcare , My daughter gets Medicaid , I also do not get free lunches for my daughter I pay full price , My son has worked hard for what he has as he was tought (sp?) that nothing in life is free you have to work hard for what you have , and he is a son that any parent would be proud of ,
a lot of what we see with kids is they are not tought that there are consiquences to their actions , as if I punish my child in public
for what they do ,I can go to jail, or get it for child abuse, I have had child services called on me twice because my daughter has self inflicted bruises , this was both times by medical staff, they talk to her school and her other service providers and I am cleared, I had a sister ( she has since passed leaving 4 children and 1 was 14 at the time ) , she had been on welfare and lived in low cost housing all her life, never worked ,
I work hard for the things I have, and will do any kind of work , (scrubbing toilets ect ) to pay my bills and put food on the table, for minimum wage if I have to , which included irrigating for (GASP)' Idaho Watersheds' ( problem for ranchers, loggers , miners in Idaho )
me and the bank own my home
Suzanne

Bless your heart, Suzorse! I mean that sincerely. Your situation is NOT the type we are talking about, at all. You are added to my prayer list.

 

[HDRider]

Maybe I see a conspiracy where none exist. I like to think things have a reason for being and it is not a series of bad mistakes and happenstance.

Tell me why the government has done so much to destroy the family?
A. Just a case of unintended consequences. The government is only trying to help the poor and downtrodden.
B. It is all part of a master plan to destroy the historic definition of family. The government wants to rule over a class of dependents thus giving more powers to our ruling class.

I read this somewhere...
Socialist polices arguably might produce an economic benefit or two, maybe,, but they are ill conceived because they suck the meaning out of life. They do this by enfeebling the institutions necessary for robust meaning in life: family, community, vocation, and faith.

I say B. The thing that mystifies me is why anyone thinks socialism works. It has always failed. It fails in all respects.

 

[HDRider]

Further found here - http://www.tfp.org/tfp-home/statements/ ... alism.html

Ten Reasons to Reject Socialism - Why we must protect the family, private property and America from the dangers of socialism




1. Socialism and communism are the same ideology

Communism is but an extreme form of socialism. From the ideological standpoint, there is no substantial difference between the two. In fact, the communist Soviet Union called itself the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (1922-1991) and communist China, Cuba and Vietnam define themselves as socialist nations.

2. Socialism violates personal freedom

Socialism seeks to eliminate "injustice" by transferring rights and responsibilities from individuals and families to the State. In the process, socialism actually creates injustice. It destroys true liberty: the freedom to decide all matters that lie within our own competence and to follow the course shown by our reason, within the laws of morality, including the dictates of justice and charity.

3. Socialism violates human nature

Socialism is anti-natural. It destroys personal initiative–a fruit of our intellect and free will–and replaces it with State control. It tends to totalitarianism, with its government and police repression, wherever it is implemented.

4. Socialism violates private property

Socialism calls for "redistributing the wealth" by taking from the "rich" to give to the poor. It imposes taxes that punish those who have been able to take greater advantage of their productive talents, capacity to work or thrift. It uses taxation to promote economic and social egalitarianism, a goal that will be fully achieved, according to The Communist Manifesto, with the "abolition of private property."

5. Socialism opposes traditional marriage

Socialism sees no moral reason for people to restrict sex to marriage, that is, to an indissoluble union between a man and a woman. Furthermore, socialism undermines private property, which Friedrich Engels, founder of modern socialism and communism along with Karl Marx, saw as the foundation of traditional marriage.

6. Socialism opposes parental rights in education

Socialism has the State, and not parents, control the education of children. Almost from birth, children are to be handed over to public institutions, where they will be taught what the State wants, regardless of parental views. Evolution must be taught. School prayer must be forbidden.

7. Socialism promotes radical equality

A supposed absolute equality among men is the fundamental assumption of socialism. Therefore, it sees any inequality as unjust in itself. Private employers are quickly portrayed as "exploiters" whose profits really belong to their employees. As a consequence, they rule out the system of wage earning.

8. Socialism promotes atheism

Belief in God, who unlike us is infinite, omnipotent and omniscient, clashes head-on with the principle of absolute equality. Socialism therefore rejects the spiritual, claiming that only matter exists. God, the soul, and the next life are illusions according to socialism.

9. Socialism promotes relativism

For socialism there are no absolute truths or revealed morals that establish standards of conduct that apply to everyone, everywhere, and always. Everything evolves, including right and wrong, good and evil. There is no place for the Ten Commandments, neither in the private mind nor in the public square.

10. Socialism mocks religion

According to Karl Marx, religion is "the opium of the people." Lenin, founder of the Soviet Union, agreed: "Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man."

May God protect America from socialism.

 

[3waycross]

What he said! :tiphat: