Pampered cattle!

[S.R.R.]

Purecountry has got me thinking!

It is not cruel to make your cattle scrape through snow ect. to get at every last bit of grass before you put the hay to them. (or is it?)

If the only grass left is what they refused to eat all summer should you make them eat it before pampering them with bales of hay? Do you find it financially productive to hold off on the hay until they have done so even if it means they lose a bit of weight?

 

[frenchie]

A lot depends on the grass/forage,the genetics, what part of the gestation and or production cycle she is in

 

[Wewild]

Purecountry has got me thinking!

It is not cruel to make your cattle scrape through snow ect. to get at every last bit of grass before you put the hay to them. (or is it?)

If the only grass left is what they refused to eat all summer should you make them eat it before pampering them with bales of hay? Do you find it financially productive to hold off on the hay until they have done so even if it means they lose a bit of weight?

We start feeding them when the pastures get to looking like a golf course. We also watch their bodies. They even try getting out..

 

[Scotty]

Cattle in a negative energy balance are unprofitable IMO. Also eating the grass that short can kill it and ruin your pastures. IF you have it, I do, feed it.

 

[MrGale]

i put the hay to em early....saves the field for another year rather than eating it down to nothing left to keep it through the winter.

 

[Alan]

Pretty good question as far as I'm concerned. I have always let the cow eat the pastures down as far as they could in years past. I had lots of moss and slow spring growth, with lots of broad leaf growth. This year I pulled the cows off early and started haying them early, I'm letting the pastures winter with 4 to 6 inches of growth on them. My hopes is to be able to put the cattle on the pastures earlier and have less moss and broad leaf. As of early winter the pastures look the best they have ever looked (also, this is the second year I have been fertilizing). I'm excited about the out come, but will worry about grass tetany this spring.

Alan

 

[Susie David]

Two old addages come to mind:
1... You can't starve a profit out of a cow.
2... Harvest past labor day (man or cow) and you take
next spring's first crop.
It's alot easier to maintain a cow's condition than trying to feed it back into her. We feed alfalfa as soon as we loose summer pasture to the seasonal drought.
Just my two bits worth....DMC

 

[stocky]

When the cows start wanting a few bites of hay, I start keeping it in the round bale feeders. They will only eat what they need and they will make the grass go alot further. It will keep them satisfied and keep them in good health. They will still eat all the grass, it will last longer and they will do better.

 

[KenB]

When the buffalo roamed the plains what did they eat in the winter?
When the grass fires burned all of the top growth what grew back in the spring?
:roll: ;-)

 

[BC]

When the buffalo roamed the plains what did they eat in the winter?)

Key word is roamed. Overgrazing is deterimental to grass production.

 

[dun]

A lot of the grass growth has to do with the tye of grasses. Those that regrow from the roots in the spring aren;t damaged by close grazing, those that have to have growth points will be damaged. Part ofthe reason overgrazing causes so much problems is that the reserves are depleted from constantly having to draw from those reserves to generate growth and there isn;t adequate time for the plant to rebuild their reserves.

dun

 

[hersh]

this is wierd. Isn't the whole key to raising cattle to keep energy coming into the animal? When it takes more energy to get the grass to a nub'n arent they goin backwards and hurting the pasture? If this is being done to squeeze every penny out of your pasture why not put the thinking energy into your hay production. Theres always pennies to be squeezed there instead of sending the animals and your operation backwards. Am I wrong or is there other reasons I'm not thinking of?

 

[hersh]

When the buffalo roamed the plains what did they eat in the winter?)

Buffalo survived, your cows are trying to turn a profit.

 

[Green Creek]

this is wierd. Isn't the whole key to raising cattle to keep energy coming into the animal? When it takes more energy to get the grass to a nub'n arent they goin backwards and hurting the pasture? If this is being done to squeeze every penny out of your pasture why not put the thinking energy into your hay production. Theres always pennies to be squeezed there instead of sending the animals and your operation backwards. Am I wrong or is there other reasons I'm not thinking of?

Your thinking is correct, in my opinion; however, in our location we have severe drought conditions and hay production was down 40 to 50 percent this year. For some it is going to be a stretch to get through the winter with the hay that's available. Squeezing the pasture is part of the strategy unfortunately.

 

[dun]

this is wierd. Isn't the whole key to raising cattle to keep energy coming into the animal? When it takes more energy to get the grass to a nub'n arent they goin backwards and hurting the pasture? If this is being done to squeeze every penny out of your pasture why not put the thinking energy into your hay production. Theres always pennies to be squeezed there instead of sending the animals and your operation backwards. Am I wrong or is there other reasons I'm not thinking of?

I'm not talking about grazing it to the dirt, just short like an inch or 2. The only time we graze it shorter is if we're going to reseed or frost seed clover. Shorter then that and you get frost heaving of the grass plants. Leaving an inch or 2 also will allow more water to perculate into the soil rather then run.
That's where the knowledge of the individual grass is vital. Managing fescue is a whole lot different then any of the native WSG which in turn is different then managing bermuda. Range managment is totally different then pasture maagment. Range I define as the open multiple hundred or thousand acre areas that have sparse forage. The onl range I've dealt with was that which requires 300-350 acres per pair.

dun

 

[Caustic Burno]

Purecountry has got me thinking!

It is not cruel to make your cattle scrape through snow ect. to get at every last bit of grass before you put the hay to them. (or is it?)

If the only grass left is what they refused to eat all summer should you make them eat it before pampering them with bales of hay? Do you find it financially productive to hold off on the hay until they have done so even if it means they lose a bit of weight?

SRR the problem is not your feeding method which is most cetainly sound, but the board is ate up with drug store cowboys now and not Cattlemen. You are argueing with pet owners that have no idea about how to turn a profit with a cow. If you read a lot of the post on here they have no idea what it takes to maintain old Belle. The one's I dearly love is look at my herd bull he is registered and the POS should have been cut and sold to Mc Donalds.

 

[hersh]

CB, before I go the wrong way in my learnings, whats the diff between the drug store cowboy and the cattlemen? I'm not up on western slang. I guess its the difference in regions and hay production. Like here, sometimes you look at a hay field and beg it to stop growing so you can catch your breath. So in general wouldnt be better to get them off the pasture before its raped to the ground and starts staying wet letting them stomp it to a mudhole, and get them into a feedlot where you can start pouring all that stockpiled hay. This is on average not counting a bad drought year like they had down south.

 

[1848]

I think you need to weigh the benefit. If you are a outfit that winters steers, and/or bases return in the next year off weight gain, then why would you jeopordize having you cattle lose so much wieght that it would take 3 times as long, and as much nutirtion to get it. back? If it takes 30 days for you to see a drastic difference in BS then why put yourself behind the power curve? If you weaken your cattle to much in a snow/cold environment, then you take the chances of loss through pnemonia and other problems. You can balance your cattles intake through limited feedings, or seperation/distance of feed from water, grazing, and/or shelter. If you don't mind losses or have a strict criteria for having the cattle do it on thier own (even with 3 ft of snow on the ground) then why even consider "not" meeting the basic nutritional requirements of the herd. In a natural environment with no fences, cattle would have move off the snow bound pass to the lowlands for winter...where there was some grazing through the season!

I think making the cattle hustle for food is important...if there is food to hustle....but bringing there BS down to poor condition to make a point of saving the buck or forcing them to scrap the ground (and possible injure their feet) will only increase your losses, increase your open females (if you breed malnutritioned cows), an is not in your best interest.

Overgrazing can destroy any pasture, and grasses which need the insulation of the snow to survive the winter will be further damaged by overgrazing in the winter. I think you can come up with a plan the meets both yours and the cattle needs without feeling like you are coddling them. ;-)

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB, before I go the wrong way in my learnings, whats the diff between the drug store cowboy and the cattlemen? I'm not up on western slang. I guess its the difference in regions and hay production. Like here, sometimes you look at a hay field and beg it to stop growing so you can catch your breath. So in general wouldnt be better to get them off the pasture before its raped to the ground and starts staying wet letting them stomp it to a mudhole, and get them into a feedlot where you can start pouring all that stockpiled hay. This is on average not counting a bad drought year like they had down south.

Drug store is all hat got 15 or 20 acres and doesn't know or care if his stock turns a profit. You would think they were Shanghi Pierce to read their post or listen to them talk.

 

[Wewild]

Not sure who's talking to me if any.

We don't have a problem with our pastures coming back. We graze it down and start feeding.

I'm not a grass expert. We don't have a rotational grazing system.

We don't feed out of a sack. We feed grass and hay only except for a few. These would include the heifers to tame them and a small herd of red polls twice a year to get them penned.

I'm 43 and that's just the way it's been done around here as long as I've know. I'd say it's been that way a might longer.

A cow and a half to an acre and a half.

But I am listening.