Over-conditioning and Calving Ease

[inyati13]

I have been wanting to aggravate AllForage all spring. Now that my last spring calf is on the ground, let’s talk about my “over-conditioned” cattle. Let’s not debate why they are over-conditioned. If Ryan wants to continue to believe I feed significant quantities of concentrated feed, I am content with that. Regardless of cause, my cattle carry a lot of condition. I hope I don’t create bad karma but so far those over-conditioned cattle are having their calves unassisted. I did not touch one of the 10 calves this spring while they were in the womb. Two of the 10 were heifers and I had two sets of twins. One of those heifers had a 105 pound calf. My calves are averaging about 88 pounds. If this continues, I am not as inclined to be as concerned about high birthweights as I was a year ago.

This heifer calved early this morning. An 82 pound calf. She carries a lot of condition. She came to me fat. I have had her in a small lot for two months. All she got was minerals and about half a bale of grass/alfalfa hay per day and what she could pick in the lot which was not much. She still held her condition. I worried about how fat she is and calving but she was standing with calf nursing at 5:30 am. I saw her at dark last night and I would have bet a $1000 she would calve overnight. Damm, I am getting good at this. I also texted my friend Clint that Mercedes had her calf. He said how big. I said 80 pounds. Calf weighed 82.

 

[inyati13]

Star's calf from this morning 40 days old:

 

[AllForage]

Ron you stubborn @ss ol' mule!!! Never said you feed concentrates. Your problem is long growing season, way too under stocked to effectively control body condition, don't manage your grass tight enough because your old azz legs can't climb your hills without having a heart attack to cross fence, and you run crossbreeds which will get fatter easier.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

 

[John SD]

IMO, overconditioning itself does not cause calving difficulty as much as lack of exercise. Exercise = muscle tone. Muscle tone = conducive to successful troublefree calving and correct calf presention in birth canal. The "cooped up in the lot 24/7" is not the optimal pre-calving exercise program. Better to let heifers out in pasture daily to graze or feed hay at the far end of the pasture 1/2 mile away.

One particularly drouthy year BWS (Before Water System) the only well I had that could handle watering duties for my whole herd was about a mile from the feeding area/protection. I felt sorry for those bovine gals filling up on hay and then they had to hoof it a mile to get a drink. Turned out to be one of the most trouble calving seasons ever. I give credit to the cattle being forced to getting plenty of exercise. Granted, there should be some happy medium between no exercise and too much. :idea:

 

[inyati13]

Ron you stubborn @ss ol' mule!!! Never said you feed concentrates. Your problem is long growing season, way too under stocked to effectively control body condition, don't manage your grass tight enough because your old azz legs can't climb your hills without having a heart attack to cross fence, and you run crossbreeds which will get fatter easier.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I don't smoke and never have.

You are correct. I have tons of forage. In fact, I have the highest stocking rate I have had and they are gaining so much weight, they look like hogs. I am keeping the calves on them as long as is convenient. Thanks for that response. :lol:

 

[inyati13]

IMO, overconditioning itself does not cause calving difficulty as much as lack of exercise. Exercise = muscle tone. Muscle tone = conducive to successful troublefree calving and correct calf presention in birth canal. The "cooped up in the lot 24/7" is not the optimal pre-calving exercise program. Better to let heifers out in pasture daily to graze or feed hay at the far end of the pasture 1/2 mile away.

One particularly drouthy year BWS (Before Water System) the only well I had that could handle watering duties for my whole herd was about a mile from the feeding area/protection. I felt sorry for those bovine gals filling up on hay and then they had to hoof it a mile to get a drink. Turned out to be one of the most trouble calving seasons ever. I give credit to the cattle being forced to getting plenty of exercise. Granted, there should be some happy medium between no exercise and too much. :idea:

Your response is much appreciated. I have wondered about that. I do put my calvers up in the later stage of their pregnancy. Especially heifers. I might need to watch my practices regarding your findings. Thanks.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Ron you stubborn @ss ol' mule!!! Never said you feed concentrates. Your problem is long growing season, way too under stocked to effectively control body condition, don't manage your grass tight enough because your old azz legs can't climb your hills without having a heart attack to cross fence, and you run crossbreeds which will get fatter easier.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

:clap: ;-) :clap: :nod:

 

[JWBrahman]

IMO, overconditioning itself does not cause calving difficulty as much as lack of exercise. Exercise = muscle tone. Muscle tone = conducive to successful troublefree calving and correct calf presention in birth canal. The "cooped up in the lot 24/7" is not the optimal pre-calving exercise program. Better to let heifers out in pasture daily to graze or feed hay at the far end of the pasture 1/2 mile away.

One particularly drouthy year BWS (Before Water System) the only well I had that could handle watering duties for my whole herd was about a mile from the feeding area/protection. I felt sorry for those bovine gals filling up on hay and then they had to hoof it a mile to get a drink. Turned out to be one of the most trouble calving seasons ever. I give credit to the cattle being forced to getting plenty of exercise. Granted, there should be some happy medium between no exercise and too much. :idea:

Moderator, John from SD must be banned immediately for giving great advice. Haha
John, exercise is essential to calving ease and proper structure. Back when I got her in August she was post-legged and way too straight in the rear end. Now she is fine. Good forage and exercise...

 

[inyati13]

IMO, overconditioning itself does not cause calving difficulty as much as lack of exercise. Exercise = muscle tone. Muscle tone = conducive to successful troublefree calving and correct calf presention in birth canal. The "cooped up in the lot 24/7" is not the optimal pre-calving exercise program. Better to let heifers out in pasture daily to graze or feed hay at the far end of the pasture 1/2 mile away.

One particularly drouthy year BWS (Before Water System) the only well I had that could handle watering duties for my whole herd was about a mile from the feeding area/protection. I felt sorry for those bovine gals filling up on hay and then they had to hoof it a mile to get a drink. Turned out to be one of the most trouble calving seasons ever. I give credit to the cattle being forced to getting plenty of exercise. Granted, there should be some happy medium between no exercise and too much. :idea:

Moderator, John from SD must be banned immediately for giving great advice. Haha
John, exercise is essential to calving ease and proper structure. Back when I got her in August she was post-legged and way too straight in the rear end. Now she is fine. Good forage and exercise...

One thing for sure, I got enough hills for them to get their exercise.

 

[JWBrahman]

Your girls are on the Stairmaster 24/7, lol.

If you have to starve your cattle to get a live calf you are doing it wrong and it is time to change something.

 

[John SD]

One particularly drouthy year BWS (Before Water System) the only well I had that could handle watering duties for my whole herd was about a mile from the feeding area/protection. I felt sorry for those bovine gals filling up on hay and then they had to hoof it a mile to get a drink. Turned out to be one of the most trouble calving seasons ever. I give credit to the cattle being forced to getting plenty of exercise. Granted, there should be some happy medium between no exercise and too much. :idea:

3rd sentence in this paragraph should read "Turned out to be one of the most trouble FREE calving seasons ever." Didn't notice this error until this morning, too late to go back in and edit. My feeble minded thoughts sometimes go faster than my feeble typing fingers. That's why I edit a lot

 

[Supa Dexta]

My heifers are grain fed and in a tie stall barn all winter up until calving. I've been doing this all wrong. :lol2:

 

[Aaron]

IMO, overconditioning itself does not cause calving difficulty as much as lack of exercise. Exercise = muscle tone. Muscle tone = conducive to successful troublefree calving and correct calf presention in birth canal. The "cooped up in the lot 24/7" is not the optimal pre-calving exercise program. Better to let heifers out in pasture daily to graze or feed hay at the far end of the pasture 1/2 mile away.

I was going to respond to this thread but you did it for me - almost verbatim. Had a few 106-108 lb calves out of the heifers this year, never helped any - and for the first time, I saw a heifer go into labor and deliver a 106 lb bull all while standing up, never lying down. Seen a number of cows do that, but never a heifer.

 

[KNERSIE]

Overconditioning plays a much smaller role in BW than most care to admit. Cattle that are always in good condition seldom have real outliers in BW, but those that got very thin and gained fast the last trimester is where you can expect to have issues

 

[plumber_greg]

Thanks for sayin' that Kenrsie, have heard too many times, " I fed my cows some grain, (or some really good hay, etc) and when I checked them my normal every four days during calving season, all I had was trouble. Gotta' be because they had too much feed."
One university study found that feeding cows a ration, I forget how much, of grain in the last trimester made a whopping 3 lbs. of difference in birthweight. gs

 

[JSCATTLE]

I brought some heifers home from the farm in November to keep. They were fed for 3 weeks in the pen and then turned out in rye grass. These were 5 weight heifers. Mid April when I put the bull in with them they were from 905 to 965 pounds . On the scale. And around 14 months old. One of the heifers stood for the bull before I got them home and she calved today . Calf was 47 lbs. she bred to a Hereford bull who's epds say his bw was 100 lbs . The heifer has been bcs 7 or better since about February. What I'm trying to say is if feeding them too much is a problem this calf shoulda been huge.

 

[inyati13]

Excellent information in the responses. Much appreciated.

 

[highgrit]

A 100 lb birth weight is to much bull to use on heifers. I've had some small calves from heifers this year using a Hereford bull also. I have a couple of heifers that look like their going to blow up.

 

[JSCATTLE]

A 100 lb birth weight is to much bull to use on heifers. I've had some small calves from heifers this year using a Hereford bull also. I have a couple of heifers that look like their going to blow up.

She bred at 7 months old I had no intentions of breeding her to the herefobull. I breed my heifers to a calving ease brangus bull. I've been sweating it for the last month . Luckily she didn't have a problem and delivered last night while I was at work . I was referring to the feeding more than anything because these heifers have been mud fat all year .

 

[Son of Butch]

Overconditioning plays a much smaller role in BW than most care to admit. Cattle that are always in good condition seldom have real outliers in BW, but those that got very thin and gained fast the last trimester is where you can expect to have issues

I saw a BCS (body condition) study that cattle scoring less than 5 had 6 times more calving problems than cattle 5 or higher.
And weak calf syndrome (failure to stand and nurse in 60 minutes) was 9 times higher in cattle with BCS of less than 5.
(Surprisingly death loss was the same for both 3 BCS & 4 BCS ... I suppose it's because a calf can only die once)